Wednesday, May 6, 2009

YOUR TURN: "The Secret Life of Patsy Ramsey"? What Literature Might Reveal About the Crime Scene of a Beauty Queen

by Mark Soukup, Guest Contributor

When the murder of JonBenét Ramsey hit the news I thought the 6-year-old pageant princess's father John Ramsey was some kind of pedophile and guilty of the crime. I wasn't very interested in the case. But I had just switched to an early shift at work and listened to local talk radio where the case was covered extensively. But when the autopsy report and ransom note were made public, I saw Patsy Paugh Ramsey, the former Miss West Virginia, as the perpetrator.

I also saw the killing as a type of sacrifice. For years I had been reading books on the psychological interpretation of mythology. From what I'd studied, many of the odd and seemingly incomprehensible aspects of the crime could be seen as having symbolic meaning known only to the offender.

This type of attachment to myth and dream symbolism is typical of psychosis. In some cases a psychotic will take destructive action as a means to manifest their psychotic fantasy. I brought this up to the local talk-radio host but the idea was dismissed. I was curious if the idea had come up before, but back then I had no access to the Internet. So I started reading about the case.

Small Sacrifice

The first book I got was Andrew Hodge's A Mother Gone Bad, and in it I found a reference to the Seraph report. That small group of investigators was commissioned by the Boulder police for an assessment of the ransom note and crime. They concluded Patsy Ramsey had sacrificed her daughter. Their interpretation of sacrifice was different from mine but at least I knew the subject had been brought up to police. At this point the case was two years old.

My line of reasoning came from an approach to dream analysis that is used by Jungians called amplification. I took the theme of literature that is prevalent in the case from the ransom note to John Douglas's Mind Hunter to The Bible and looked for common elements. The common elements, if found, would indicate a "complex," a behavior-centering force in the mind of the perpetrator.

A Sacrifice of Biblical Contortions

For example, the role of the Psalms in the case was well known with a possible connection between the ransom amount and a common interpretation of Psalm 118 that mentions sacrifice. Also, the Ramsey family Bible (NIV study version) was open to a passage that has four lines beginning with the letters C, T, B, S—the reverse of the cryptic ransom note sign-off: S.B.T.C.

Further reading of the Psalms revealed a repeated use of words, phrases, and ideas that are common to the crime and to mother Patsy Ramsey's life in general. After careful study, I thought I had the key to not only the identification of the single perpetrator but an indication that the death of JonBenét was not due to an accident, as was the prevalent theory, but was the intentional act of a person in the grip of a psychosis.

By this time I had access to the Internet. I hit the forums with my ideas and was both lauded and rebuffed. The lack of acceptance made me dig even more. I went back to the trail of literature left by Patsy herself and fixed on Muriel Spark's The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie since Patsy had chosen to perform a soliloquy from the novel/play in the talent portions of her pageants. Again, I was looking for an indication of a complex. I started with the movie and found three uses of the word "sacrifice" by Jean Brodie (in film still, above). I thought sacrifice was the centering theme in Patsy's psychosis, which she found unavoidably attractive in Spark's work.

JonBenét and Fruit from the Poisoned Case

It took me several months before I read the book. Just a few pages in was a description of a tea party with two members of the Brodie set where pineapple was served. The appearance of pineapple in JonBenét's digestive tract along with the Ramseys' denial of having served it to her—and the use of pineapple by Spark in her novel—was the first mythic connection for me between the crime and a work of literature Patsy was known to have been intimately familiar with.

A few pages more and the question of the spelling of "possession" came up in the novel. The misspelling of possession in the ransom note was part of the heated conversation of the case on the radio and Internet. A detailed study of the book, play, and movie revealed many, many items common to both the crime and to Patsy and the literature she was known to have been associated with, including the chillingly titled Death of Innocence.

Many, many aspects of the case seemed strange and incomprehensible to investigators and to the public and were attributed to panic, amateurism, desperation with the possible source of ideas for staging found in crime books and movies. My investigation into this theme of literature, to me, has revealed coincidence after coincidence between the death of JonBenét Ramsey and the life of Patsy Paugh Ramsey. A preponderance of coincidence rules out coincidence and out of what seems to be a random jumble comes a pattern; the use of one person by another as an object in a personal psychotic fantasy.

A person in psychosis often sees themselves as either a mythic figure or related to one in some way. They also may see themselves as part of a mythic storyline. They may exhibit behaviors that have a high degree of structure but with a low degree of rationality as they follow the mythic storyline. This story may be self created and/or part of an existing, archetypal, or well- known story that can be easily found in popular literature. It is my opinion that the death of JonBenét Ramsey is the result of just such a psychosis and the evidence for it can be found in the products of the creative life of Patsy Ramsey—her writing, her artwork, her correspondences, her pageant performances, the ransom note and even what was done to the body of JonBenét.


Women in Crime Ink reader Mark Soukup is an amateur art historian who has studied symbolism and the creative process. He is owned by two sheep dogs and lives in Colorado.

68 comments:

Media Mentions said...

Here's a bit of an expansion for your topic today; http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=ICLZU6DXMAH2&preview=article&linkid=c9c524a9-edf0-411a-96a5-1a9c316d6a63&pdaffid=ZVFwBG5jk4Kvl9OaBJc5%2bg%3d%3d

Please enjoy,
MediaMentions

Leah said...

This is very interesting. Maybe one day JonBennet's murder will finally be solved.

Levi said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Levi said...

Maybe if they stop looking for boogey man intruders like John Mark Karr, it will be solved. Since Mary Lacey is no longer DA that is a good move in the right direction.

Leah said...

The whole thing reeks of someone close to the family or a family memeber otherwise there would have been no need to write a completely insane ransom letter. That had to have been done to try and throw off the investigation. And even if I didn't know that John Ramsay received a $118k bonus that year, I'd still have thought that amount to be strange. I hope someone will take this case and work it properly.

Amen @ Mary Lacy.

NA said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Levi said...

Great points Leah. We also need to remember there was duct tape put over her mouth post mortem. Why would an intruder put duct tape over the mouth of someone they had just murdered? Only someone trying to stage the crime scene would do that.

Also, poor JBR had a blow to the head post mortem. Why would an intruder do that?

It screams an inside job, and unfortunately because John and Patsy refused to cooperate with the police, immediately hired lawyers and blocked all cummunication with law enforcement in the early parts of the investigation, I don't think we will ever find out who murddered JBR.

RickAHyatt said...

The Gary Condits did it. To learn how check the menulinks by paging down on http://www.rickhyatt.freeservers.com
FOR PROOF.

FleaStiff said...

>>"The Secret Life of Patsy Ramsey"?
>>What Literature Might Reveal About the Crime Scene of a Beauty Queen
Before starting with some secret life why not start with the openly available evidence wherein it is clearly unlikely for children in a family to be killed absent inescapable poverty, drug use or alcoholism?

>>I thought the 6-year-old pageant princess's father John Ramsey was some kind of pedophile and guilty of the crime.
An interesting conclusion to jump to out of the clear blue.

>>But when the autopsy report and ransom note were made public, I saw Patsy Ramsey as the perpetrator.
Ah, so it was the local talk radio that altered your perceptions then?

>>I also saw the killing as a type of sacrifice.
What type of sacrifice would that be?

>>many of the odd and seemingly incomprehensible aspects of the crime could be seen as having symbolic meaning known only to the offender.
Ah, just the offender and you, eh?

>>This type of attachment to myth and dream symbolism is typical of psychosis.
Psychosis? You have diagnosed a severe psychiatric condition that had eluded dozens of experienced observers based upon your interpretation of dreams?

>>The first book I got was Andrew Hodge's A Mother Gone Bad,
You made an interesting choice in selecting such utterly unscholarly crap as a starting point.

>>and in it I found a reference to the Seraph report. That small group of investigators was commissioned by the Boulder police for an assessment of the ransom note and crime. They concluded Patsy Ramsey had sacrificed her daughter.
Are you sure it wasn't a small group of individuals who constituted a faction? The BPD did not want some sort of assessment, they wanted an interrogation tool to manipulate a suspect on whom they were obsessively fixated. The Seraph Report was a police interrogation ruse that instead of being concocted by a police detective within the BPD was outsourced by them.

>>For example, the role of the Psalms in the case was well known
Well known to local talk radio callers perhaps.
>> with a possible connection between the ransom amount and a common interpretation of Psalm 118 that mentions sacrifice.
Oh, you've decided to make use of that word 'possible' have you?

>> Also, the Ramsey family Bible was open to a passage that has four lines beginning with the letters C, T, B, S—the reverse of the cryptic ransom note sign-off: S.B.T.C.
Did you discern that by means of your secret agent magnifying glass applied to some crime scene photograph? What crime scene photographs shows the family Bible open to a particular page? How are you able to read the text from the photograph? Or is this from the local talk radio?

>>Further reading of the Psalms revealed a repeated use of words, phrases, and ideas that are common to the crime and to mother Patsy Ramsey's life in general.
Common to other crimes and other lives too, I would imagine.

>>but was the intentional act of a person in the grip of a psychosis.
Wow! A pyschosis. A very transient episode perhaps since so few people around her noticed anything amiss.

>>I started with the movie and found three uses of the word "sacrifice" by Jean Brodie (in film still, above).
I bet you found three uses of alot of words in the film. Why was sacrifice suddenly so significant to you? Is it possible for someone to watch the movie and pay attention to other themes contained therein?

>> I thought sacrifice was the centering theme in Patsy's psychosis, which she found unavoidably attractive in Spark's work.
Gee, I don't know. Alot of people enjoyed the movie but never felt they were somehow unavoidably attracted to it.

>>A preponderance of coincidence rules out coincidence and out of what seems to be a random jumble comes a pattern; the use of one person by another as an object in a personal psychotic fantasy.
Does a female having a personal psychotic fantasy exude male dna?

A Voice of Sanity said...

Whoever killed JonBenet also wrote the misnamed 'ransom note'.
The note was written by a 14 yr old white male.
Therefore JonBenet was killed by a 14 yr old white male.

Patsy was not 14 years old.
Patsy was not a male.
Therefore Patsy did not kill JonBenet.

Levi said...

And how do you know the ransom note was written by a 14 year old white male?

You think it was an intruder, than explain why an intruder would stage the scene of the crime and put duct tape over the mouth of someone they murdered, and hit them in the head after they murdered their victim?

Also explain why John and Patsy hired a lawyer and refused to communicate with law enforcement during the early stages of the investigation...

This is not a 14 year old boy, it isn't a santa clause dude, it isn't John Mark Karr...

It was an inside job.

Cherry said...

My husband, I and our sons sat directly behind the Ramsey's in NY at Annie Get Your Gun.

Patsy and her husband were there with their publicist. They would appear the next morning on Good Morning America to promote their book on their dead daughter.

Patsy's behavior was bizarre to say the least. The publicist sat between them. The husband and publicists acted as if Pasty wasn't really with them. They were overly friendly with each other, holding hands, laughing, whispering, very flirtatious. It was uncomfortable to watch. Pasty trailed behind them during the break, her head hung low, often talking to herself.

We all went to the lobby for refreshments. There Pasty was reenacting the show, singing and dancing, making quite a spectacle and calling attention to her self.

I had felt sorry for her in the theater, as several of the children where her daughters age and blonde. I thought it must be difficult to watch.

Patsy acted like a child, her husband and publicist treated her like one and behaved as if they were ashamed and annoyed with her. I was embarrassed for her and felt there was something very wrong, mentally with her.

I got up early to watch TV the next morning to see if her behavior had changed. It had. The Patsy Ramsey I saw in the theater that night was mentally disturbed. The woman on TV was not. Was she on medication?

What was the purpose of her public display at the theater? The woman I saw needed medical attention.

Why take a chance putting her on TV when she was obviously unstable? Did she see the world as her stage? Was the murder of her daughter her vehicle to stardom? What message were they sending hiring a publicist?

How could John Ramsey flirt so shamelessly with his wife right next to him? They were not acting like grieving parents.

It's left me with a lot of questions in the case. Questions also about how her behavior was brought out. I did read a few accounts of her bizarre behavior a few times but nothing I thought that realistically portrait her as I and my family had eyewitnesses.

I too read Andrew Hodges book. I didn't agree with everything he said but did find much of it interesting. I also find your assessment interesting.

Sad we probably won't know the truth in this case. Sad a murderer of a little girl walks free.

Personally I think there are many secrets the Ramsey's hold that we may never know.

On another note my husband is the same age and had actually gone to the same high school as John Ramsey, they had known each other. My husband had no desire to strike up old acquaintances that night for obvious reasons - we kept our distance.

boughtthefarm said...

Interesting Cherry. I have heard other similar comments about PR.

No way was that ransom note written by a 14 year old!

Levi said...

Cherry, interesting story. I couldn't stomach being around either John or Patsy, they make me sick to my stomach.

you mention the book they wrote and it is true they both made a lot of money off of JBR's murder. They had claimed the proceeds were going to the "JonBenet Ramsey Foundation" but when the book was released the organization was defunct.

Anonymous said...

This is the most ifiotic take on the case I have ever read.

How do you Debunk the MALE DNA that was found in the blood in her underwear? Which was a match to the touch DNA discovered even later? You may not believe in touch DNA, but the fact that it matches is a whole different matter.

Evidence DOES point to burglary, and if the burglar broke in while they were out he would have had plenty of time for mayhem.

I know people dont like the Ramsey's, but they didnt do this. There is no evidence they did it, and all the evidence that the cops didnt screw up points away from them.

I love the idiotic pineapple argument. I suppose none of you know any 7 year olds that have raided a fridge for a snack while their parents were in another room.

Anonymous said...

I hate when I missspell a word like idiotic. (rolls eyes)

A Voice of Sanity said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
A Voice of Sanity said...

"boughtthefarm" said: No way was that ransom note written by a 14 year old!Prove it. Prove that it was written by an adult. Give examples in support of this opinion of yours. Explain why any adult would write something so ridiculous, something unlike any such note ever written. Explain why what looks like a high school assignment is the logical outcome of an effort to cover up a crime. Explain why it was hand written and not computer generated.

You can't.

boughtthefarm said...

The ransom note doesn't sound like a HS assignment, it sounds like something from a movie.

I have a better idea AVOS, prove it was written by a 14 YO male. Give me some examples of ransom notes written by 14 YO males. How the hell did you come up with an exact age?

YOU can't!!

Anonymous said...

his insight was found at http://womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/2009/04/your-turn-secret-life-of-patsy-ramsey.html and I want to respond. My responses will be in bold print.



When the murder of JonBenét Ramsey hit the news I thought the 6-year-old pageant princess's father John Ramsey was some kind of pedophile and guilty of the crime. I wasn't very interested in the case. But I had just switched to an early shift at work and listened to local talk radio where the case was covered extensively. But when the autopsy report and ransom note were made public, I saw Patsy Paugh Ramsey, the former Miss West Virginia, as the perpetrator.

[b]I am sure the "Ramsey's did it" mentality of the press helped Mark Soukup decide what side of the fence he would stand on.[/b]

I also saw the killing as a type of sacrifice. For years I had been reading books on the psychological interpretation of mythology. From what I'd studied, many of the odd and seemingly incomprehensible aspects of the crime could be seen as having symbolic meaning known only to the offender.

[b]I agree that certain aspects of any crime have meanings understood only by the killer. But that doesn't always, or even usually, involve "sacrifice", IMO. Certainly there was NO evidence in THIS case of any "sacrifice". Not in the note, not in the act itself and not in any part of the aftermath. I think the only way any observer can see a link to "sacrifice" is if they are determined to find said link, squint hard and hold their breath...[/b]

This type of attachment to myth and dream symbolism is typical of psychosis. In some cases a psychotic will take destructive action as a means to manifest their psychotic fantasy. I brought this up to the local talk-radio host but the idea was dismissed. I was curious if the idea had come up before, but back then I had no access to the Internet. So I started reading about the case.

[b]Can't say if the killer was psychotic or not. But will say if he WAS psychotic, it wasn't just for a few hours on December 26th, 1996. If he was psychotic then, he was at other times as well. Having said that, I think he was probably just a criminal type who was acting out on a sick fantasy. Not psychotic, just mean, real mean, a monster.[/b]

Small Sacrifice


The first book I got was Andrew Hodge's A Mother Gone Bad, and in it I found a reference to the Seraph report. That small group of investigators was commissioned by the Boulder police for an assessment of the ransom note and crime. They concluded Patsy Ramsey had sacrificed her daughter. Their interpretation of sacrifice was different from mine but at least I knew the subject had been brought up to police. At this point the case was two years old.

[b]If you read everything available on Seraph, you know they write reports intended to put pressure on people during interrogations - they are NOT prepared to swear under oath that the reports are "accurate and true", not at all. They are tools to be used by investigators and don't have to be honest. Seraph was asked to write a note to be used to put pressure on Patsy and that is just what they did. It is out there in their own interviews - - do a search and find it for yourself.
As for your choice of books to start with - - it was a poor choice. Hodges is, IMO, a sick man himself. I hope he is in therapy.[/b]

My line of reasoning came from an approach to dream analysis that is used by Jungians called amplification. I took the theme of literature that is prevalent in the case from the ransom note to John Douglas's Mind Hunter to The Bible and looked for common elements. The common elements, if found, would indicate a "complex," a behavior-centering force in the mind of the perpetrator.

[b]Since the killer wrote only the note, not Mind Hunter or the Bible, I fail to see how this effort was worthwhile. Most of the investigators looked at the ransom note and the actual actions the killer took to determine their profile and I believe that was a better plan.[/b]

A Sacrifice of Biblical Contortions

For example, the role of the Psalms in the case was well known with a possible connection between the ransom amount and a common interpretation of Psalm 118 that mentions sacrifice. Also, the Ramsey family Bible (NIV study version) was open to a passage that has four lines beginning with the letters C, T, B, S—the reverse of the cryptic ransom note sign-off: S.B.T.C.

[b]118 could have related to a psalm, or John's bonus, or a date, or someone's weight or some debt owed. Could have been a house number or the time the killer hoped to be home. Truth is, no one knows if the killer had thought one about any psalm. That was not part of the note at all. As for the bible being opened to the page you claim, that is not true. Idiot Don Foster worked for MONTHS to figure out there was only one place in the bible where the 4 letters used in the ransom note sign off were evidence - - backwards but in existance. In the end, it is far more likely the letters SBTC stand for something else. The bible was not opened to that page and there is no reason to think that was the source for the letters - - the killer made NO reference to anything religious in the note. Not at all. There was NO "known" role of the Bible or Psalms in this case.][/b]

Further reading of the Psalms revealed a repeated use of words, phrases, and ideas that are common to the crime and to mother Patsy Ramsey's life in general. After careful study, I thought I had the key to not only the identification of the single perpetrator but an indication that the death of JonBenét was not due to an accident, as was the prevalent theory, but was the intentional act of a person in the grip of a psychosis.

[b]Details, please. I knew Patsy and never found her talking like the ransom note. The note indicated to me someone who liked to study true crime, liked action movies - - Patsy did not. I can give a lot of details if you like, things in the note that match movie lines or true crime letters (and hence was in the Leopold and Loeb ransom note, for example. Patsy didn't read true crime books, didn't watch those movies. [/b]

By this time I had access to the Internet. I hit the forums with my ideas and was both lauded and rebuffed. The lack of acceptance made me dig even more. I went back to the trail of literature left by Patsy herself and fixed on Muriel Spark's The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie since Patsy had chosen to perform a soliloquy from the novel/play in the talent portions of her pageants. Again, I was looking for an indication of a complex. I started with the movie and found three uses of the word "sacrifice" by Jean Brodie (in film still, above). I thought sacrifice was the centering theme in Patsy's psychosis, which she found unavoidably attractive in Spark's work.

[b]Sacrifice by garotte? With sexual assault? No candles, no markings on the floor? There is no evidence this was a sacrifice at all, certainly not one made by the child's mother. Patsy had NO history supporting that theory..[/b]

JonBenét and Fruit from the Poisoned Case

It took me several months before I read the book. Just a few pages in was a description of a tea party with two members of the Brodie set where pineapple was served. The appearance of pineapple in JonBenét's digestive tract along with the Ramseys' denial of having served it to her—and the use of pineapple by Spark in her novel—was the first mythic connection for me between the crime and a work of literature Patsy was known to have been intimately familiar with.

[b]So you think the killer fed JonBenet pineapple so she might have some link to the Sparks book? Then why not sign the note "Victory, Jean Brodie"? Seriously, this is really stretching.[/b]

A few pages more and the question of the spelling of "possession" came up in the novel. The misspelling of possession in the ransom note was part of the heated conversation of the case on the radio and Internet. A detailed study of the book, play, and movie revealed many, many items common to both the crime and to Patsy and the literature she was known to have been associated with, including the chillingly titled Death of Innocence.

[b]I have seen someone take a random song playing on the radio and make a case for it being part of this mystery. Anything can be manipulated to look interesting, but in the end, you need to show how the EVIDENCE proves the theory. Perhaps you are unaware of the fact the Ramseys have been cleared and the foreign DNA found on the body and on her clothes is now in CODIS and considered the best chance we have to find the killer - - male DNA that does not belong to any of her relatives.[/b]

Many, many aspects of the case seemed strange and incomprehensible to investigators and to the public and were attributed to panic, amateurism, desperation with the possible source of ideas for staging found in crime books and movies. My investigation into this theme of literature, to me, has revealed coincidence after coincidence between the death of JonBenét Ramsey and the life of Patsy Paugh Ramsey. A preponderance of coincidence rules out coincidence and out of what seems to be a random jumble comes a pattern; the use of one person by another as an object in a personal psychotic fantasy.

[b]Would love to hear you explain why a mother with no history of mental illness would do this.
Why couldn't the experts match the writing to her - the DA said it is pretty much a certainty it is not hers.
Why couldn't anyone link her to the stun gun, the cord, the duct tape, the boot prints, the DNA???
I remember being accused of this murder myself and part of the logic was that I lived near BURKE COUNTY! Such "evidence" is garbage.[/b]

A person in psychosis often sees themselves as either a mythic figure or related to one in some way. They also may see themselves as part of a mythic storyline. They may exhibit behaviors that have a high degree of structure but with a low degree of rationality as they follow the mythic storyline. This story may be self created and/or part of an existing, archetypal, or well- known story that can be easily found in popular literature. It is my opinion that the death of JonBenét Ramsey is the result of just such a psychosis and the evidence for it can be found in the products of the creative life of Patsy Ramsey—her writing, her artwork, her correspondences, her pageant performances, the ransom note and even what was done to the body of JonBenét.

[b]Maybe the killer WAS acting out a psychotic fantasy. He sure was acting out a sick one. But the fact is, the ramseys didn't do this. The evidence points to an intruder, the honest investigators are holding out hope to find a match for that DNA. Your accusations are not only weak but a cruel act that can only hurt the family who lost a child and were then attacked by people who - for some reason I can't understand - don't want to believe evil does walk our streets and can touch any of us.[/b]

Anonymous said...

My full analysis of the Prime of Miss Jean Brodie and the Psalms can be found at Topix and Forums For Justice. Mark Soukup

BrotherMoon said...

I don't want to relitigate this case here. So many of the above objections are weak. The fact is many items of the crime are common to literature Patsy was known to have been associated with.

Beckner and Garnett said in the recent press conference that DNA and linguistics were going to be the focus of the renewed investigation.

The Intruder has left nothing for comparison to the ransom note.

And Mary Lacy produced the DNA "evidence" just like she produced John Kark Karr. Mark Soukup

BrotherMoon said...

John Mark Karr.

Levi said...

Voice, you said this was a 14 year old. So you should have something to back that up.

Maybe I'm crazy but where did you get the ability to know how old someone is by reading a note they wrote? I don't even think handwriting experts can do that, maybe an estimated age range, but not the exact age.

A Voice of Sanity said...

€Levi said: Voice, you said this was a 14 year old. So you should have something to back that up.

Maybe I'm crazy but where did you get the ability to know how old someone is by reading a note they wrote? I don't even think handwriting experts can do that, maybe an estimated age range, but not the exact age.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Handwriting is irrelevant. The text tells you who wrote it. Anyone much younger than 14 wouldn't have written such a note, couldn't have carried the child down the stairs, wouldn't have stayed in the house after the family returned. Anyone much older wouldn't have written such a long note, would have asked for a more realistic ransom, would probably have actually taken the child from the house.

It's written like a high school assignment: "Imagine you are a member of a terrorist group who has abducted the child of a prominent businessman. Write a letter to extract a ransom. It's due on Friday."

BrotherMoon said...

http://www.topix.net/forum/news/jonbenet-ramsey/TRMT6UCPDG9SEHUOQ

This is a link to my analysis of The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie and the Psalms.

BrotherMoon said...

http://crimeshots.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9324

Here's another for The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie

Anonymous said...

BrotherMoon is a nutcase. Nuff said.

Boughtthefarm said...

To AVOS & with all due respect,

Why would any teacher assign that as homework? And would that be an English teacher, Government teacher?? Do you have a particular 14 YO male in mind for this crime? I happen to be a teacher and I have never heard of such.

What you have offered is merely you speculation and theory. Nothing more. And nothing substantative to back it up.

A Voice of Sanity said...

Boughtthefarm said: To AVOS & with all due respect,

Why would any teacher assign that as homework? And would that be an English teacher, Government teacher?? Do you have a particular 14 YO male in mind for this crime? I happen to be a teacher and I have never heard of such.

What you have offered is merely you speculation and theory. Nothing more. And nothing substantative to back it up.
~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh GOD I hope you are lying about being a teacher. The idea that anyone as utterly clueless as you would have that sort of responsibility is terrifying. No wonder the education system of the USA is a scorned throughout the world.

Perhaps you could take an upgrade course in English, focusing esp. on words such as simile, example and analogy.

boughtthefarm said...

LOL I teach Trigonometry & Calculus you moron. Perhaps you should get your GED and then some college before you start making such ridiculous statements about a crime that you obviously know nothing about.

A Voice of Sanity said...

I have a college degree along wth a long list of advanced trade qualifications. I am one of the very few non engineer persons who I know who has actually used 'Trigonometry & Calculus' in real life to solve real problems.

However I also understand logic and reality. No adult would ask for a $118,000 'ransom'. No adult would write such a note. An adult's note would read:

HAVE CHILD
MONEY
PHONE
NO COPS

not a long diatribe about 'small foreign factions'. I'm sure you provide much amusement for your students. Too bad you cannot demonstrate common sense to them.

TLTL said...

OK, I'll bite. What exactly did you use trig and calc for to solve real life problems?

Anna said...

Some say, “If only the Ramsey’s had been just ordinary folks of modest means, they would have been arrested on the spot.” That’s probably true, but their wealth was just one factor that contributed to the convoluted nature of this crime, and its abysmal aftermath. Patsy’s obvious abnormal view of motherhood, coupled with John’s questionable sexual proclivities, made it a wonder that JonBenet lived as long as she did. The cover-up was akin to a comic book depiction of a Greek tragedy. Innocents were indiscriminately “thrown under the bus,” while the guilty, and their ilk, were thumbing their noses at the Judicial System. The Ram’s wealth and clout kept them out of jail, and disproves the theory that you can indict a ham sandwich. The Grand Jury was a joke, and an excuse for the D.A. to keep the Ram’s “untouchable.” The second D.A. on the case used John Mark Karr as her excuse to keep the Ram’s enjoying the very freedoms that they permanently took away from their child. Of course, it backfired, but she managed to issue a “document” (of questionable legal merit) apologizing to the Ram’s, and declaring their innocence. Not even Shakespeare could have “thunk-up” such an outlandish plot. There are layers upon layers of corruption, abuse, greed, lust, conspiracies and licentious behavior associated with this case; the latter of which the guilty and their ilk would rather die than have revealed. Among others, the folks at” Forums For Justice” will not fold their tents and silently steal away until Lady Justice has made a clean sweep of all those responsible for JonBenet’s murder and all those who aided and abetted same.

BrotherMoon said...

That's very well written Anna.

Anonymous said...

the most important consideration regarding jonbenet's death is simple. of course patsy did it. she was into beauty pageants and having her daughter enjoy participating in them. can you imagine the horror the little girl must have experienced?

Anonymous said...

holy cow. you got it. psalm 118. my gosh, woman, how did you figure it out? and this "Also, the Ramsey family Bible (NIV study version) was open to a passage that has four lines beginning with the letters C, T, B, S—the reverse of the cryptic ransom note sign-off: S.B.T.C." i mean, are you some kind of genius's genius? this is absolutely incredible!!! you solved the case. i've never seen anything like it.

Anonymous said...

We all went to the lobby for refreshments. There Pasty was reenacting the show, singing and dancing, making quite a spectacle and calling attention to her self.

well i dated patsy while john was flirting with their publicist and man we had a good, good time. she was all that and plenty more. i dated john, too, and he was alot of laughs. in fact, he and i plan on getting married someday after they legalize same sex marriages in michigan where we plan to settle down. i found them both to be unusually fussy eaters, preferring shrimp over lobster. each daydreamed quite a bit, too. and could they snore! very disturbing. i think that means they are guilty of something according to Sigmund. not sure but i'm investigating, undercover, with the folks who conspired with my dear uncle george to pull off 9/11. how 'bout you? any thing exciting going on in the psalms?

Anonymous said...

a great analysis of the ransom letter

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?s=43e5b6918691cb25e2ad4a629113ea42&t=6404&page=2

the Ramseys had MONEY, is it conceivable that they somehow 'bought' the DNA evidence?

A Voice of Sanity said...

Anonymous June 7, 2011 said: "the Ramseys had MONEY, is it conceivable that they somehow 'bought' the DNA evidence?"

Not remotely. The local cops were like junk yard dogs - even the attempt would have set them off and brought an instant arrest.

JonBenet was killed by the note writer. The note writer was 14 yrs old and male.

Pat Brown said...

The note reads like a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book, something a nine-year-old boy would have. I believe the idea for the note came from there, but was written by an adult.

The note also starts with the word, "Listen!" which is rarely used when one is writing to people one can't see, but more common when someone is dictating to someone standing in front of them.

The letters in the note also match the font of the "Choose Your Own Adventure" book and are the same size, as if someone had used the book, not only for the concepts in the letter of a kidnapping, but also to trace words and disguise the handwriting of the person writing the not.

I wrote John Ramsey about the book being used by the note writer and he sent me a form email back thanking me for my interest and never commented on anything I had written.

Inside job.

Pat

A Voice of Sanity said...

A 9 yr old couldn't/wouldn't carry the child down the stairs to the basement and wouldn't have stayed in the house when the family returned. I doubt he would have conceived of the idea of leaving a terroristic threat either. Think 14 yrs.

Pat Brown said...

Voice, I wasn't saying a 9-year-old committed this crime. I was saying that the note writer was familiar with the book that the 9-year-old had in his room.

A Voice of Sanity said...

If you mean their son, he was 8 IIRC. Any similarity between the book and the note is one of those semi coincidences. Remember, this was two crimes:
First; a note as a terroristic threat, written with no intention of committing a kidnapping.
Second; a kidnapping but not for money or for sex, just to 'enhance' the note as an afterthought. IMO the killing was most likely an accident (dropping the child?), with the strangulation committed out of fear.

Anonymous said...

The similarites between facts of the case and literature is the key to this crime. It is the signature of this crime. The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie and the Psalms are two major sources. There are many other sources mentioned in the investigation of the crime, including movies as well which I include under the rubric of literature. From the family Bible to the family dictionary to Mind Hunter to Patsy's correspondences to the scripts Patsy used in her pageant performances to the ransom note itself it is the printed and spoken word that is the thread that ties this crime together.

The youthful aspect of the ransom note is due, in my opinion, to the regressed state of mind Patsy was in when she committed the crime.

Patsy suffered a form of personality disorder due to the influence of being raised by her pathologically narcissistic mother Nedra. In the vein of Dissociative Identity Disorder Patsy deliberately took the life of JonBenet.

Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet.

Mark Soukup aka BrotherMoon

A Voice of Sanity said...

Balderdash. Patsy was not involved in any way whatsoever. No family member was.

Anonymous said...

That is the typical contentless post by an IDIot. (Intruder Did It our theory)

A Voice of Sanity said...

I agree. You are an idiot.

Anonymous said...

Try to follow: YOU are the intruder theorist, ergo YOU are the IDIot.

A Voice of Sanity said...

I am right.
You are wrong.
If you weren't an idiot, you would recognize this.
Therefore you are an idiot.
Simple logic.

Anonymous said...

Then back it up with evidence. What evidence is there of an intruder?

NiceOneBaez said...

I'm still waiting for your evidence too, IDI.

A Voice of Sanity said...

This was two crimes:
First; a note as a terroristic threat, written with no intention of committing a kidnapping.
Second; a kidnapping (legally) but not for money or for sex, just to 'enhance' the note as an afterthought. IMO the killing was most likely an accident (dropping the child?), with the strangulation committed out of fear.

Anonymous said...

Pat Brown, excellent catch on the plagiarizing style which PR would use when writing that ridiculous ransom note.

Only a seriously disturbed (BPD or Borderline) person could have written that note and expected people to believe it.

Apparently John just went along with it? No doubt he is enjoying his joke on the American public, the legal system, and manipulating the media , as most of these sociopaths do.

Many forums and commenters are however, not buying the story. Read city-data also. Good comments.

Poor JBR will probably never get justice. Another murder case where the perpetrators bought their way out, sickening and Americans are fed up.

A Voice of Sanity said...

I keep claiming that 98% of people are as dumb as a sack of rocks. H. L. Mencken said it was 80% but IMO he was a cheery optimist.

However there are always more who readily volunteer to prove my point. Always more. The last 'Anonymous' just did as much.

BrotherMoon said...

Patsy killed JonBenet deliberately. No one else was involved. There was no staging for police. Everything that was done was done by Patsy for Patsy as part of a psychotic fantasy revolving around an imagined relationship with a supernatural being, the fear of judgment by that God and the fear of death. What people mistakingly take as staging for police had symbolic meaning known only to Patsy. This includes the ransom note. There were two aspects to what was done to the body: the ligatures were suspension devices, the body was posed and viewed and then taken down, placed in the small room, wrapped and the duct tape applied to set the kidnapping scene up in Patsy's mind. The ransom note is full of the ideas that swirled in Patsy's mind that night and plagued her for many years.

The goal was not to kill JonBenet but to make an Angel out of her.

Patsy herself said after the funeral "JonBenet is in Heaven with God awaiting her mother's arrival and it won't be long." Patsy put JonBenet in that heaven to complete the fantasy and in her mind assure her life after death.

As the dedication in DOI says:

Wherever we go ...
Whatever we do ...
[We're gonna go through it together ...]

A Voice of Sanity said...

Crazy, You're all crazy.

BrotherMoon said...

Every one knows there was pineapple in JonBenet's proximal intestine and there was a bowl of pineapple found in the home. Most people don't know that milk or cream was in the bowl as well. Lou Smit showed a crime scene photo of that bowl to John Ramsey and John said it looked like there was milk or someting in it. Lou asked him "Who eats it that way?" Smit was after an intruder and he knew pineapple in cream is unusual.

This is From the book The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie:

"Sandy Stranger had a feeling at the time that they were supposed to be the happiest days of her life, and on her tenth birthday she said so to her best friend Jenny Gray who had been asked to TEA at Sandy's house. The speciality of the feast was PINEAPPLE CUBES WITH CREAM, and the speciality of the day was that they were left to themselves. To Sandy the unfamiliar PINEAPPLE had the authentic taste and appearance of happiness and she focussed her small eyes closely on the pale gold cubes before she scooped them up in her SPOON, and she ... Both girls saved the CREAM to the last, then ate it in SPOONFULS."

Patsy fed JonBenet 'happiness' just before she killed her.

BrotherMoon said...

The pineapple/cream snack was given BEFORE the death.

That means elements of the story were in play BEFORE there was any need to "stage". That suggests, to the non-naive, that the death was just another part in a sequence already started before the death.

The cords on the wrist and neck might just suggest suspension. At least to a creative thinking investigator that wants to explore all possibilities.

And remember there is no explanation for the 17" of cord between the wrist loops as being able to fool cops as being bindings. They couldn't functionally bind a child as constructed but could suspend/pose the arms as constructed.

BrotherMoon said...

The cord tied around the neck with a length of cord between the loop and the handle that is long enought for the handle to clear the head when brought up behind the head when a short length would be adequate for strangualtion is an indication that that length had a function other than strangulation: it had to clear the head to fit into whatever held it as the body was suspended.

This explanation also matches the length of cord between the wrist loops which would not be binding but would serve the purpose of raising the arms to the position they were found in if the wrist cord was placed on the same thing that held the neck ligatur

BrotherMoon said...

The wrist ligature could not have bound the arms and could not have fooled investigtors into thinking they were a binding device. Ergo it was not staging for police. It was functional in that it could pose the arms. The neck ligature likewise has construction elements unrelated to strangulation but related more to hanging. Every aspect of the two ligatures can be explained as suspension devices but cannot be explained ( without stretching, pun intended) as binding or strangulation devices.

BrotherMoon said...

Our time sees psychosis in terms of pathology. Past cultures saw it as the sine qua non of a religious experience.

A psychotic very often has visions of mythic figures, identifies with them and imagines to be a part of a mythic storyline.

They can exhibit complex behavior that has a high degree of structure but a low degree of rationailty as their decision making gives way to the mythic storyline.


You are looking at a psychological understanding of some crime and some aspects of religion.

BrotherMoon/Mark Soukup said...

The cords were tied over the shirt and would likely not have made marks even if tied tightly. The degree to which they were tightened can be judged by the autopsy photo of the loop remaining on the arm.

What is important is the 17 inch length between the loops which would not restrict motion and could not have been deduced by an investigator to imply such restriction. IOW, that isn't staging for police.

The photo seems to show the cords on the wrists were tight enough to keep the arms from slipping through the loops if raised by the cord. IOW, that implies a function not of binding but of raising the arms as in posing.

Anonymous said...

Great article and fascinating commentary regarding the bindings and suspension. I had never considered that the bindings were indicative of that. It has given me a lot to consider in relation to this crime.

I've followed this case from the beginning and read several books about it. From the first time I ever saw Patsy Ramsey in interviews, her speech, mannerisms and her bizarre personality all exude "mentally unstable" to me.

I've always considered her as the prime suspect in this murder. I completely agree with your assessment.

Add to that the cult like religious group she frequented and her cancer and fear of dying and it's the perfect stew for psychosis. I believe she intended to send JonBenet to Heaven so she could re-unite with her in death. Patsy chose a very ritualized way to do that, too, and acted out her own fantasy.

There are so very many red flags leading up to this murder and after the fact, that to overlook all of those things which provide the context of this crime as a premeditated act is just not rational.

The DNA is a red herring. There were, IIRC, actually five partial unknown DNA profiles, not one. It's meaningless. Given that there was a Christmas party at the Ramsey house and the party Christmas Day at the White's, those DNA samples could have gotten on JonBenet's body from using the bathroom in either or both of the homes during the parties.

Thank you for your thought provoking article.

Linda

BrotherMoon Mark Soukup said...

Thank you very nuch. Pass the word. The solution to this crime is here in this article.

Mannequin said...

Almost twenty years later and some of the public remains fascinated by the murder of JonBenet. I agree with BrotherMoon in that Patsy was suffering a personality disorder(s). Her fear of death boosted her ego with the ability to conceive how JonBenet must go ahead of her, assuring her place in Heaven.
JR & PR almost seemed relieved after JB died. Something very wrong with the family died along with JBR.
Apparently, JR knew PR had disordered personality; therefore, he helped cover her tracks. He was too busy in '95-6 being successful to notice the changes in his wife.
Thank you, Pat Brown, for the great interpretations.

Brian Wright said...

I too believe it may have been Patsy who performed the act, but under a very different circumstance. However, it could still have been as an unintentional sacrifice (a fantasy made real, if you will) and her testimony about having no knowledge may be, in fact, truthful. Patsy had been using sleep aids, specifically Paxil. She admitted taking it every night to the investigating officer. Many sleep aids can induce sleep walking, sleep eating and even sleep driving. Some sleep aids have caused people to live out fantasies (some violently) while entirely asleep. When they wake, they have no knowledge of how they got there nor understand what happened.

I personally believe JBR's death can be attributed to this circumstance. At the time, these drugs were new on the market and sleep driving and other sleep activities were as yet unknown. We now know today what's possible with some of these drugs. But then, we didn't. So, the investigating officers would not have known of this possible side effect of Paxil or to even investigate this possibility. However, it explains a lot. It explains John's hesitancy to answer questions and how truthful they sound. He may have been awakened as a result of Patsy's sleep activities. He may have even found Patsy performing the act while still asleep. If he put her back to bed and then 'cleaned up' the scene to look as if an intruder had been present, that would save Patsy from being arrested.

If she had been sleepwalking for some time (and usually this is the case when it begins happening when using these drugs), he may have already known that when she wakes after sleepwalking she doesn't remember doing it. So, it would be easy for Patsy to pass a lie detector. For John, he didn't do it, so he would also pass. John may have even kept Patsy in the dark entirely so that any questions would always be truthful.

Ultimately, this probably means Patsy was privy to something that was going on around JB. Meaning, Patsy may have been aware of what John was doing with her and wished so much that it would stop that the Paxil made her wish come true.

Mark Soukup said...

Patsy killed JonBenet deliberately. John found the body before 11 am.