Wednesday, October 19, 2011

Baby Lisa: Gone, Baby, Gone

by Pat Brown

Pretty much, that is all we know right now. Ten-month-old baby Lisa Irwin was there and then she wasn't. Two weeks have passed since her disappearance and she hasn't reappeared, dead or alive. Wait, we know one other thing: she didn't climb out of her crib and go for a walkabout. Someone removed her from her home, so we know someone knows something. We just don't know who.

In missing baby cases where proof of abduction is weak, there ends up being two scenarios: the parents did something to the child or someone else slipped in and made off with the child. Unlike an abduction where a child is seen by witnesses being dragged into a vehicle or a case where a child walking from school never arrives home but her parents have solid alibis, a child who goes missing on the parents' watch often causes the parents to become suspects at some point in time. 

The parents of Sabrina Eisenburg became suspects very quickly; the parents of Madeleine McCann became suspects when the police focus when the detective on the case eventually began to think the timeline and parents' behavior didn't add up. Both of these cases remain open and the missing children have never been found. Both cases have a camp that believes the child was abducted and a camp that thinks the parents caused the death of the child and orchestrated a cover-up. If Baby Lisa is never found, the parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, will be added to this club.

Once upon a time we believed parents of missing children: we never doubted that the people standing in front of the camera, crying and begging for their child's return, were playing us. But after we got burnt by the performance of Susan Smith and a number of others, we have become more skeptical. We now replay the video to see if the parent is crying real tears and we watch their body language. We examine every bit of evidence. We don' t want to yet again be duped into expending emotion on a parent who will turn out to be a killer and a fake and we don't want to spend our valuable time searching for a child whose parents already know exactly where she is.

Baby Lisa is missing and many people are not accepting the parents' story at face value and throwing them their unconditional support. They are searching for inconsistencies in their story, for proof that the baby was abducted, for alibis that are supportable, and for behaviors that don't seem right.

And, unfortunately, for Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, they are not faring well in the analysis.

The basic hurdles parents must clear these days to keep the public faith in them include:
  • Real tears: Deborah clearly had tears in many interviews; Jeremy, no.
  • Strong emotion: Deborah, yes, Jeremy, no.
  • Nice house, well kept: yes
  • Good looking baby: yes
  • Charming photos and video: yes
  • Willingness to speak in the media: yes, but then refused to do local media, only national. Made it seem like a desire to be famous might be at play
  • Willingness to talk to the police: yes, until they stopped. Then they started again, only now police say they are not answering all the questions
  • Pass the polygraph: Deborah says she failed; Jeremy didn't take one.
  • Consistent story: Deborah has changed the time frame and now claims she was drunk; Jeremy originally said he checked the kids first and now says he talked to Deborah first
  • Crime scene has visible signs of abduction: There is only a slightly opened window and left- unlocked door which does not prove an abduction occurred
  • Parents show responsible behavior: Deborah now states it is okay for her to be drunk while caring for the children
  • Suspicious strangers have been lurking around: So far there has only been a homeless handyman who is said to have been cleared
  • Police not focusing on parents: The police are clearly heavily focusing on the parents
  • Not lawyering up: They now have Joran van der Sloot's lawyer which may be smart but makes the them look like they need a strong defense.
  • Not having things about the case that make you go "hmmm:" Deborah has stated that her children heard some strange noises but she has never asked them about what they heard and when because she doesn't want to upset them. Another thing that has bugged me is that Deborah has called her child "Baby Lisa" in television interviews; this is a name given by the media to identify the story and not something a mother usually calls her own child. Then, the "drunk/blackout" story came out after the parents got a lawyer and one wonders if this is a defense strategy for court or a way to excuse Deborah from answering any more police questions about what happened that night. Finally, Deborah changing the time she last saw her daughter (put her to bed) seems like a way to take emphasis off the later time, a time that her sons may have heard something and that Mom doesn't want to acknowledge. Oh, and Deborah also said she thought she would be arrested which is very odd unless she is aware there is more evidence implicating her than we know.

If I add up this list, I have to say the parents haven't done so well going over these hurdles. Public suspicion is likely increasing rather than decreasing. Right now, I would say as a criminal profiler, the evidence and behaviors indicate the parents are more likely to have involvement in the disappearance of Baby Lisa than a stranger to have abducted her. But, without proof or solid evidence, this set of inputs could be misinterpreted - an abductor might have managed to sneak in and out without detection; maybe he did turn on the lights and steal phones because he is a major weirdo. 

The parents might have odd behaviors - even personality disorders - which cause them to act in a manner that arouses suspicion but they still didn't do anything to their baby. Mom and Dad could be awful parents and still be innocent of doing anything criminal. But, because they are not passing the "hurdle" test very well, the police are going to be all over them, people are going to stop looking for the baby, and, if no abductor is ever caught (and the parents aren't found guilty), then, like the Eisenburgs and the McCanns, a cloud of suspicion will always hang over their heads.

Where do you stand on the likelihood of Baby Lisa's parents being involved in her disappearance? What would you add to the list of "hurdles?" How does what you have seen of the case and the parents affect your willingness to support the search for Lisa?


SteelMagnolia said...

Hi Pat,A couple of things 1)about the cell phone which police have told Debbie they picked up on, her cell phone to be taking that from there and a susggestion.

Something else Hinky Meter has picked up on, (a great mind working there) the burnt clothes, for officers to have shown them to Bradley they must have been baby clothes, they would not be showing her a mans burnt jacket, right ? Lets say for arguments sake, the alleged phone call from Bradleys home reported to be at 2.38 a.m along with the dumpster fire call which was dispatched at 2.19 ...add to that around 1 a.m a man seen with a baby wearing ONLY a diaper .....I would say there could be a connection and the burnt clothes may have belonged to Lisa.

Quote From Hinky meter:

Debbie was shown “burnt clothing” by the detectives as well. She states that now she has to believe those things were fake…at least SHE HOPES the burnt clothing was not real.

Really? Well, this is what we don’t currently know – was the burnt clothing you were shown completely burnt up? or was it partial clothing that was discernible but part of it was destroyed?

SteelMagnolia said...

Here on the Police Scanner Recordings the father has claimed the screen was ' busted' well this was not true, the screen was just popped out and from the reconstruction the police had to force 'the same NOT busted screen' out of the window to enter...but would an abductor then try to return the screen leaving a corner 'popped out'?

Police Recording.

You mention the McCanns, but tell me something Pat, if cadaver dogs indicated to the mothers clothing, an item of clothing belonging to Lisa, the car, a place in the garden, the boot of the all honesty what would the people think....they were quick enough to believe she was folk were quick enough to believe the McCanns 'neglect' I do not believe either they are both covers 'alibis' to explain the disappearance of their children.

SteelMagnolia said...

My Final Point and How Ashley Irwin felt the need to write on Facebook with an explanation about the cell phones.

Something I picked up on, Hinky Meter Blog...the cell phones and Bradley let slip about her own cell phone....

Next we have family mouthpiece Ashley Irwin posting on Facebook claiming the 2.30 call was a rumor !...I don't think so ! Captain Steve Young aware it is vital to find those damn phones, Bradleys to be precise.

Have a good day Pat xx

Quote from Hinky meter:

Debbie revealed that law enforcement had shown her cell phone ping maps of activity of one of the missing cell phones (she says “my cell phone” to be exact). Debbie was shown “burnt clothing” by the detectives as well. She states that now she has to believe those things were fake…at least SHE HOPES the burnt clothing was not real.


Ashley Irwin, Lisa Irwin's aunt, just wrote on our page: "Jeremy was at home with the children while Debbie & her brother went to the store. The 2:30 a.m. phone call is a false rumor. Their cell phones were shut off due to non-payment. No one could have made a call and that is also why police couldn't ping them."

Anonymous said...

Pat you cannot compare the McCanns with these cases.PM Gordon Brown was heavily involved , the press were gagged and the parents treated like loyalty. Unless Obama gets involved or the Irwin case becomes political then I believe good old fashioned police work will solve this crime.

Have you heard when the Irwins are to meet with the Pope lol

Anonymous said...

These is PR Media Propaganada and nothing about looking for an alleged abducted child !

Pat Brown said...


If sis says the three phones were not able to be used due to nonpayment, why were Deborah and Jeremy looking for them to make a 911 call?

SteelMagnolia said...

Hi Pat, my thoughts exactly !

Rumor on twitter -Fox is behind the Reward money /Tacopina and Stanton..reports also there is a connection with Stanton and News can check this out.

But if Murdoch is behid this via Fox he intends to make this as big as he did the Mccann case.

Did you know in Australia there is a court case against Murdoch Tabloids they kept a Koala bear 'alive' for four years the damn thing died four years ago lol

Keep a look out for all of those Hoax sightings..

Bradley comment ' If I get arrested they will stop looking for Lisa'

McCann Comment 'If They think Maddie is dead they will stop looking for her.

Check and find out if Fox is behind this then just follow the McCann media trail to predict whats up next.

Anonymous said...

Hi Pat, glad you are following it. My mind boggles to see a copycat scenario to the McCanns unfolding in the US! and in such a short time span...
I see a similarity to Clarence Mitchell and Tacopina (Both known PRs)
I smell an aroma of Rupert Murdoch in this affair. Tacopina stated that Bradley hired him for this job!! WHERE has she got that kind of money!! I ask!!

Another case for you to dig your teeth into.. I'll be following your findings..

SteelMagnolia said...

Realize you are busy Pat but need you to read this from Val Hall. We are back to the fire dumpster, cell phone and those burnt clothes.

My tuppence worth, ALL are related to the neighbor who saw around 1 a.m. man with child in only a diaper.

Pat Brown said...

The supposed 1 a.m. sighting of a child in just a diaper would seem to rule out a stranger abduction because the baby was dressed when put down (at least drunk Mommy says so). An abductor isn't going to remove clothing. Of course, if Mom did put baby down with just a diaper, it is possible.

If baby is in a diaper, then then there is no reason to burn up clothes.

Why do supposed kidnappers always walk down the middle of a street with an uncovered child for all to see? ::cough::

FRG said...

Mrs. Brown,

What lights were on in the house? Is the busted screen near the baby Lisa's bedroom? Are the parents bedroom close to baby Lisa's bedroom? Do they have dogs? Didn't they bark?

Well, if the mother passed out (insert rolling eyes here) she wouldn't have heard anything anyway. But why would a kidnapper leave the lights on, it would draw attention to himself, unless the abductor was drinking with the mother which I am not accusing anybody.

This is so weird. Maybe Police know more than they are saying.

Thanks Mrs. Brown for the article.

Anonymous said...

Hi again, Let me clarify a detail that is untrue.. Ashley's statement saying that a mobile phone's account can be closed for non-payment, but Local Emergency No. is available. You can conduct a test yourself by removing your SIM, and start your phone.. A message will tell of a missing SIM, but then it allows you "Emergency Calls ONLY".
I hope that clarifies doubts you may have.. Rgds UNCLE B.B.++

Pat Brown said...

Uncle B.B,

That is very interesting about cell phones and 911 ability even if the account is closed. I had no idea this was true. If this applies the cell phones in the parents' possession AND they knew they could call 911, then it would not be odd that they went looking for them. If this isn't true for their phones or they didn't know, then different story. It will be interesting to learn what was told to the police in the first hours.

BTW, your input is why I love teamwork on cases. Sometimes one can make a wrong determination because one does not understand some aspect of something. The more input there is from various people, the more likely you are not to overlook or misunderstand something.

For example, a suspect is said to be black with a speech defect because he asked for "flim" for his camera at the drugstore. If I were around I would suggest the man was Jamaican because that is how many Jamaicans say "film."


SteelMagnolia said...

Hi Pat still trawling for info and found something else you need to take a look at.

Bradley is a liar therefore we have no idea of the clothes Lisa was wearing...I would like to know more on the neighbor who saw man with child and I asked earlier if it was normal to see a man at that time in the morning with a child wearing only a diaper, is it cold in Kansas now ?

I am interested if it may have been the brother taking Lisa somewhere...the sighting interests me because it does not interest Bradley and it should !

Anonymous said...

Pat, one more small detail. When a mobile phone gets disconnected for non-payment, then NO outgoing calls can be made, but you may receive incoming calls for a duration of (3 months or more in €) Not too sure about the US.!! The only time when the phone is completely immobilized is when the SIM Card is reported STOLEN. Hope that helps.. UNCLE B.B.

KLGG said...

When I first heard that the lights were on, I suspected that the mom had been drunk, that is such a drunk thing to do. I really suspect that the mom was in a blackout and harmed the baby. It is possible that she or husband buried her. I just heard that the police are digging in the back yard. I also think the kids know something and may have seen some really awful behaviors from drunk Mom. Some people do get violent on alcohol and she was also on a benzoe which is really bad. the combination would make her super drunk. The father's eyes are very disturbing. Because of his eyes, I have wondered if he knows about the dead baby or helped bury her.

It is all very disgusting.

Anonymous said...

If you have multiple numbers on a wireless account the primary number is the one that becomes restricted until which time it becomes evident the bill isnt getting paid. Therefore Debbies phone may very well have had full service at the time this took place.

SteelMagnolia said...

Pat exclusive interview with a couple of former friends of Bradleys.One of them is Sara E you remember she posted about Debbie on one of the forums.Thoughts ?

Anonymous said...

I wonder if Dad could have done something while Mom was passed out.. to "teach" her a lesson??? Why would mom be showing all the emotion and Dad none??

Anonymous said...

It IS a copycat ... but of this:

Pat Brown said...

Thanks, Anonymous! That is fascinating! Everyone go check out the article above at Statement Analysis. This "Baby Gone Missing" crime took place in Ft. Bragg, North Carolina where Deborah Bradley lived with her husband (not Jeremy Irwin) who was in the same 82nd Airborne Division. That mother had a fascination with the Madeleine McCann case and Deborah did her press conference interviews clutching a stuffed animal just like Kate McCann did in her interviews.

Anonymous said...

I didn't read all the comments (sorry - one of my downfalls. I see something I need to comment on and comment, then go back and read again) so I apologize if this has been covered. ALL cell phones have the ability to dial 911 regardless of service. If they have been turned off for non payment, you can still dial 911 and get the emergency dispatch center.

KLGG said...

OK, so I'm thinking about her fascination with the McCann case and it hits me - meds to keep the baby quiet! Maybe she did the same thing - gave Baby Lisa some her anxiety meds to keep her quiet..... and she died.

Anonymous said...

Pat - I have a question. If mommy dearest was drinking enough to get drunk, and daddy was supposed to be working that evening, who did HE think was going to be caring for ALL the children? Not JUST Lisa, but all the children in the home? He left all them alone in the care of a woman that was so drunk she passed out, by her own admission. And if he was at the home to care for the children while she went to the store to buy the wine, then he was aware that this was going to be taking place, no?

What are your thoughts on this?


Anonymous said...

I just want to say that I don't believe Deborah's tears. It is not for Lisa's safe return. I believe those tears are for herself. Jeremy has had tears but I believe those tears are of despair. He whole body language to me is he is mad, mad at Deborah and mad at himself.
p.s. I read on a forum also describing Deborah's tears. She never wipes her tears away. Like she is saying look at what you have done to me. Look at what I am going through.
It's all about Deborah and that is how she is making all this be about.

KLGG said...

I think she doesn't wipe the tears away because she wants us to believe she is crying for the baby. It makes her lie believable. She likes the attention too. Yes, it IS all about her. That's why she'd rather talk to national television than the police.

Anonymous said...

I live in Kansas City Missouri so have followed this case more closely than others. I believe the key is the cell phones. First Ashley Irwin stated the cell phone rumor was just that - a rumor. She stated that phone service was "restricted" for not paying the bill. This was, IMO, because that's what Deborah was telling her, and she stuck her neck out there, based on a Deborah lie. I don't believe Ashley would have said that, unless she truly believed Deborah. So why would Deborah lie about the cell phones? Because I don't think she is savvy enough to know that they can be traced. I don't think she knew the police could get her records. I think she simply thought getting rid of the phones would hide the evidence. Then when the police had proof that an outgoing call was made (and we all know darn well they know the phone number that was called and know who it belongs to), and only then, did the story change. In a Megyn Kelly interview, when Megyn asked Deborah who could have made that phone call, and Deborah stated "whoever took Lisa, I was sleeping". That, to me, was an acknowledgement that it was an outgoing call, made by whoever had Lisa. If it was incoming, it obviously wasn't made by whoever HAD Lisa. Why didn't Deborah state nobody could have because my service was restricted? She already had accused the police of fabricating false evidence, so why didn't she say this was fake too, like the burned clothing? So from all this, we now know that the police must have shown her proof beyond shadow of a doubt, that her phone was used to make a call. At some point, Ashley is going to stop believing the lies too. I believe the KCPD knows exactly who she called, and that is why they are zeroing in on her. When people lie, they are covering something up.

Pat Brown said...

KLGG, there are interviews with people who knew Deborah back in NC who would agree with you, that says she was always hankering for attention. IF Deborah did anything to Baby Lisa, this would fit with the personality disorder labeled Munchausen's Syndrome (and Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy).

Deborah CLAIMS she was drunk but I would like evidence that there is any truth in this and not a defense strategy,

Also, has anyone heard when was the last time Baby Lisa was seen?

Anonymous said...

For someone who knows, isn't Munchausen by Proxy mainly for the attention it gets the person doing it? Deb seems to be eating up the attention, and from what I've heard about her past, she is constantly doing things to get attention (claiming miscarriages every other month). I wonder how often Lisa or the boys are "sick"? Maybe this is MSBP that went too far? Or is it just plain and simple narcissism???

Anonymous said...

OMG Pat you and I were on the same track about the MSBP, at the same time!!

Pat Brown said...

Both MSP and MSBP are labels given to a woman with a very high narcissistic streak, often psychopathy (which is the highest level of narcissism).

Miscarriages are often a trademark of MSP or MSBP; they are easy to claim and easy to get lots of sympathy for. The worst cases of MSBP involve a female serial killer who uses her own babies as victims; she gets power, control, and attention by getting pregnant, giving birth, and then getting even more attention when the baby "dies of SIDS." Then, she gets a fun funeral event and then goes back to the bed and creates the next victim.

However, with missing children getting so much media attention, having your child "kidnapped" is like winning the lottery for an MSBP woman.

KLGG said...

OK, so this is making sense - the possible MSP/MSBP. I have seen personality disorders that can cry at will, so it would not surprise me that she has learned how to act like a grieving mom, especially if the reward is attention. And in Irwin's case, it is national attention!! News media fed right into it!! Any form of Narcissism is totally self involved. Others do not matter. They are tools and toy things - loved and hated when they become needed or no longer of interest. This is getting creepy now. I hope her son is safe.

Anonymous said...

I work for one of the largest cell phone service providers in the US. Just to clear this all up for good so we can move on: After ~60 days of non-payment the entirety of your cell service will be suspended. No incoming or out-going calls can be made on any phone on the plan (systems can glitch, but this is very rare), with the exclusion of 911. As long as your phone has "bars" an emergency call can be made at any time on any phone that is able to work on a US network (850MHz 900MHz 1800MHz and 1900MHz bandwidth).

Pat Brown said...

Thanks for the heads up on the Ft. Bragg case info from the Statement analysis site! I told a PI in KC and he told NBC there and now the info went on air there and online.

Here is the video and story with my comments.

Anonymous said...

They even wear their hair the same, freaky

Anonymous said...

i've worked for 2 different major cell phone providers. First, by federal law, ALL cell phones, even those disconnected for non-payment, are usable to call 911. Customers who call in using the argument that they need the cell service in case of emergency are routinely informed of this. Second, a disconnected cell can still be pinged by gps if the phone is powered on.

Anonymous said...

Hi Pat. Something about the video from the store bothers me. It's the hesitation- how she looks at the wine-Pauses with her back to it and then quickly grabs it and walks out. When I buy wine, which is often, I know what I want or I make a selection while facing it. It's almost as if she's contemplating getting drunk that night. I mean why hesitate? Possible she resented being alone with 3 little kids that night while hubby wasn't around cuz she wanted to party? If that's the case and she drank all that wine on top of meds, maybe she lost her temper when sick baby started fussing? Just an observation.

Anonymous said...

I honestly think that the mother did something to cause the death of Lisa. (most likely by accident) The screen having the corner pushed out was probably done by her. No person who was entering through the window to steal a baby, would attempt to put the screen back! They also would not walk up the street with a baby after they took her! The father is more then acting weird, but put yourself in his place...IF you thought this woman you lived with and had a child with, caused Lisa's death...YOU would not be able to show much emotion sitting next to her on a couch for a media interview either. I also think the cell phones were destroyed by the mother. Another cover-up for the so called KIDNAPPING. WHO would run around the house looking for cell phones before or after you took the baby from her crib and leave the lights on? SHE made a JOKE about it in the interview with FOX NEWS. Laughing that Jeremy always yelled at her for leaving the lights on. WHO could laugh when like that while being interviewed about your so called KIDNAPPED BABY? He sat there stoned faced when she did that. This whole sad case in insane. I only feel sorry for the baby and possibly the father. Living with a women who says getting drunk is ok because she deserves her adult time or some sort of BS remark. IF YOU ARE THE MOTHER TAKING CARE OF THREE KIDS, WHILE YOUR LIVE-IN MAN IS WORKING TO PUT A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD, FOOD ON YOUR TABLE ETC...THE LEAST YOU CAN DO IS BE RESPONSIBLE. This woman makes me sick and belongs in the class with Casey Anthony, Susan Smith, Diane Downs...and numerous other LIARS...who are nothing but pure evil. I am a woman/mother and can never understand mothers would do not want to DO THE RIGHT THING BY THESE children they are supposed to love and care for. Also if you have no money to pay for your cell phones..should you be out buying a BOX of wine to get drunk? JUST SAYING--JMHO!

Anonymous said...

Hey Pat. I think this Ft Bragg/MSP theory is fascinating. One thing that has always struck me as interesting here is that the parents are constantly doing national media interviews. TODAY, GMA, Fox, People Mag, you name it. They've had no interest in talking to local media though. It would seem to fit that attention seeking theory.

Also, based on the fact that neither parent, according to police, has spoken to them since Oct 8th, would that make you suspicious of Jeremy's possible involvement, maybe after the fact? Or is he just being a supportive husband?


BigbabbsKC said...

I live here in KC and this story keeps getting more and more interesting. I will have to research the story about the baby at Ft. Bragg - and try to find out the similarities. I have been consumed with Jeremy's "non" feelings about this. Also can't you "ping" a phone even if it is turned off for non payment? Our phones at one time were suspended due to non-payment but for at least 30 days we could receive calls. Also - Deborah says she was drinking with the neighbor lady and their kids were watching a movie together. Whose house? Where is the broad now? How come we haven't heard from her yet? Like everyone else wants to know WHERE IS BABY LISA? I also think the cops KNOW A HELL OF LOT MORE than they are telling. Why, why 17 HOURS OF SEARCHING THE HOUSE THE OTHER DAY? They obviously really think the "CRIME" happened there. There are just TOO MANY QUESTIONS that need to be answered by Bradley & Irwin. We shall all hope that it was a kidnapping and not the latter....

Anonymous said...

It now seems there is something to this Man walking down the street carrying a baby in a diaper. 3 different people report witnessing a man with a baby.. - a couple 3 houses away at 12:15 am, and a man going home from work spotted a man with a baby in a diaper at an intersection, about 3 miles away at 4:00 am.

Anonymous said...

Wow. Fox News behind the reward money, Tacapina and Stanton. Stanton connected with News Corp. Maybe Rupert Murdoch kidnapped Lisa so he could make this as big a case as the Mcann case.
Do you guys ever step back and look at what you have written? You sound like a bunch of hysterical idiots with your endless speculation of which very little is based on fact.

Patti March said...


Did you think she (Deborah) seemed very defensive and somewhat belligerent in the television interview, wherein she admitted to being drunk? I realize that that is a small thing, but it could matter.

Also, I just wanted to comment that, right from the start, I felt that the dad's behavior/body language seemed all wrong...flat affect, no emotion, refusal to look into the cameras. Oh, and why are they NOT using her name... dissociating?

I'm a former police officer, and also majored in Psychology at St. Louis University before becoming a I do have some experience with this, but obviously am nowhere near your level! Big fan, always love to hear from you on HLN!

Patti March said...

Oh, BTW, the only reason I am no longer a cop is that I was shot in the face/brain by a fellow cop (intentionally), and am now disabled as a result of said shooting.

Maria Mason said...

Hi Pat,

I took a class from you in DC several years ago - we had dinner after. I'm so happy for you that your career has taken off so well! One day I want to be you!

Anyhoo, as much as I wanted to believe her, Deborah Irwin's story has bothered me from the beginning, even before she changed it. Here's why:

It's just not that easy to kidnap a sleeping baby. You'd have to break in through the window quietly enough to not wake anyone up, including the baby. Ok, so maybe the baby's a sound sleeper (along with the other kids), and, we now learn, mom's drunk enough to sleep through it. The kidnapper would have to know all of that ahead of time. Who would be close enough to the family to know those things that they haven't identified for the police? And then, upon entering the house, the kidnapper says "Well there's the baby I came for, but let's just see if there's anything else I want now that I'm in. Oh look, some cell phones! Because the best thing for me to steal ALONG WITH A BABY - which will lead to a massive manhunt - is an item that can be tracked." I realize it's not as easy to track a cell phone as they make it appear on CSI, but most people don't know that!

If you were there to snatch a baby, would you really walk past her to steal something else? Or if you were just there to rob the place, would you, upon discovering you were in the room of a baby that may cry and wake everyone up, choose to gamble further by picking her up?

Even more than the parents' actions, it's the supposed actions of this criminal that (sadly) make me think Deborah Irwin was involved in Lisa's disappearance.

BigbabbsKC said...


According to the police warrant, an FBI cadaver dog indicated a positive "hit" near a bed in the Irwin household.The documents indicate that the hit of the scent of a deceased human in "an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed" on October 17.

Anonymous said...

OK, so cadaver dogs detect the scent of decomposing flesh. So would this mean that this baby could have been in that bedroom for a period of time after death?

I think this brings up the interesting question of when was the last time an independent party saw this baby alive? Surely her body could not have been in that bedroom after the parents reported her missing, right?


BigbabbsKC said...

Why couldn't the body have been there? Dad could be in on this too since the Deborah hurt the baby and then might have "blacked out" - plenty of time for them to remove from home. This is just getting more and more weird!!

Anonymous said...

I read an article that said cadaver dogs have shown they can detect the scent of decomposing flesh within 3 hours of death So where the dog detected the "hit" could have been the place where the incident occured.

It seems unlikely that the parents could have removed a body after the fact. I would have to think police had them on 24 hour survellience pretty quickly, but I don't know that. Anything is possible.

What I really want to know - is there any validity to these witnesses claiming they saw a man carrying a baby with no clothes on? Who is this person carrying the baby? Kind of important.

KLGG said...

So, the Truth is starting to undo their nasty lies. More was going on before they called the police than they said. Now all their weird body language and talking is making sense. Where is she? I hope they find her.

KLGG said...

If the man carrying a baby is a truth, it was a ruse, not a reality, to throw a glitch in the search. I suspect it is a fantasy.

Anonymous said...

The first sighting could be credible. It was reported right after she was reported missing, and it was 3 houses from the Irwin home. This most recent reported sighting, which was up near 48th st. and 435, near Worlds of Fun, seems far fetched. That's a very long way for someone to carry the baby from where the Irwin house it. Sounds like he just took the statements of the initial reported sighting and made up a little story of his own.


Mare said...

I have not read each post, so please excuse me if this has been covered.

There is a glaring inconsistency in the mother's story that doesn't make sense to me. According to her statement in the news, she was sleeping in her room, at the other end of the house, with a loud fan on. At the end of each article I have read, the reporter states that Baby Lisa had a cold/cough. As the mother of a toddler and an infant, I can say with certainty that THERE IS NO WAY that baby slept from 6:40pm to 4am. She would have been up and down. Even if Deborah had passed out, the other children would have heard her crying on and off. Further, if the baby is sick, what on earth is she doing drinking? And/or sleeping on the other end of the house where she knows she can't hear the baby over the fan? Why is she running a fan when it's ~45 degrees outside? These behaviors don't add up - especially for a mom that's been down the 'sick-child-all-nighter' road before.

Anonymous said...

Dear Pat, i have been following the mccann case in the hope of little madeleine being found for some time...and can see many similarities in this case. assuming that in both cases one or both parents killed their children as the evidence suggests, i always come back to one question... even if these so called abductions had been planned for months is it really possible to commit the 'perfect crime' and in that i dont mean the nature of the crime, i mean leaving hardly any physical evidence that leads to these children being found? Certainly in the mccann case this is what has always made me think that they could be innocent of all involvement. the act if it is an act for all the media to see worries me less because if they dont keep it up they will be going to prison for life and loosing their other children. just wondered what your opinion was?

Anonymous said...

Dear Pat, i have been following the mccann case in the hope of little madeleine being found for some time...and can see many similarities in this case. assuming that in both cases one or both parents killed their children as the evidence suggests, i always come back to one question... even if these so called abductions had been planned for months is it really possible to commit the 'perfect crime' and in that i dont mean the nature of the crime, i mean leaving hardly any physical evidence that leads to these children being found? Certainly in the mccann case this is what has always made me think that they could be innocent of all involvement. the act if it is an act for all the media to see worries me less because if they dont keep it up they will be going to prison for life and loosing their other children. just wondered what your opinion was?

Emily said...

The parents being responsible seems the most plausible explanation. Whoever is advising them is doing a terrible job in image management. No local media, only national?! Bad move IF they are innocent, which makes me believe they are the reason Baby Lisa is missing.

Anonymous said...

The supposed witness sightings don't add up.
The first one reported, bu the neighbours a few houses down, might be credible, but the second one makes no sense. Walking around close to 4 hours with an abducted almost-naked baby? Please! Especially in the US where everybody drives! If the baby had been abducted the perp would get away as quickly as possible, he would have no way of knowing when the alarm would be raised so the 4 a.m. sighting is ludicrous.

Wireless Security said...

Whatever the circumstances or reasons may be, I am more concerned about he fate of the baby. Digging the grave for dead body is easy but burying the body is real pain.

SteelMagnolia said...

Hi Pat,Just listened to you on Levi Page show and noticed you have picked up on the bizarre freelance investigating by ABC and Fox..bizarre also for me four years ago when the same thing happened with the McCanns. We now know for a fact that Murdoch was and still is behind the media manipulation of 'clearing' the McCanns through the media. I don't know if you are following hackgate but ALL key players involved in phone hacking are ALSO involved in McCann case.

I am going to send some links for your readers so they may see what is in store and be well prepared for what looks like another PR Campaign of Team Irwin as I am sure they will soon be called.

There is quite a lot to cover so if thats Ok with you I will just keep sending you links as to how hoax sightings work. I am waiting for the Paypal to go on the Irwin webpage asking for donations and they game will begin.

Odd someone on websleuths posted Bradley has coloured her hair...sure enough when I checked her hair is darker. Kate McCann within days of Maddies 'disappearance' bleached her hair !

Brian Kennedy was and still is the McCanns first he too was anonymous...and yes you are right this is creepy, never thought I would witness this 'media game ' again.

Above Carolina Santos a hoax sighting put together by Metodo 3 paid for by McCanns backer Brian Kennedy.

Has the abductor been called Afro American yet...The Irwins need to move on to dark and swarthy..always a blackman involved to add a bit of racist hatred.

SteelMagnolia said...

OK Pat lets start joining up the dots.

Kate McCann to receive an award for her book 'madeleine' the book remembered for page 129..Kate dreaming of Maddies perfect torn genitals.

The award by Galaxy...BUT behind Galaxy is Freud Communications Freud family married into Murdoch family.

SteelMagnolia said...

Ok media manipulation to fool people into believeing their donations are being used to search for a missing child.

The benefactor paying Metodo 3 was as I have mentioned Brian Kennedy to arrange false leads , hoax sightings and of course keep a suspect in the frame. I would not be surprised if the media do not go back to hound 'handyman' Jersey as the abductor the same way they did Murat.

A long read but after this week-ends media coverage of the in woods swinging arms, I believe you can expect the same... I hope folks read your blog Pat and this post so as not to be taken in and send money on a wild goose chase...Our EYES this time are wide open !

SteelMagnolia said...

Le Rette family member message left on Facebook...'police will find cell phones in the woods' ? ..will they and how does she know ?

There is someone posting called Penelope on #LisaIrwin hashtag claims she is a lawyer, however when we were discussing cadaver dogs she said to me 'maybe the bood was menstrual ' ??...I picked her up on it immediately and said who said anything about blood ? We are talking cadaver here !

Anyway according to her I am evil and vile for accusing Debrah of being a murderer something I have never idea who she is possibly family member but keep an eye on her she may slip up again.

BigbabbsKC said...

Today they have shown somebody (video is horrible) walking down the street not far from the Bradley/Irwin home around the time they beleive Baby Lisa went missing. I am still wondering where is her brother through all of this - the one who took her to the store to get her wine? Also - where is the neighbor she was drinking with? Still no sights or sounds from them. Also - more people have come forward saying they saw some guy walking down the street early in the morning carrying a baby with just a diaper on - WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THOSE PEOPLE - I WOULD HAVE CALLED POLICE RIGHT AWAY - or would have at least followed him (I am nosy that way) kinda weird don't you think? Just too many inconsistency's in this story.

KLGG said...

The 12:15 a.m witness was on JVM tonight and said the man walking with the baby was skinny, tall (6 ft) and bald.

SteelMagnolia said...

Always keep it simple. I believe the sighting that Judge Jeanine asked Bradley about is significant...Bradleys response, a sharp intake of breath and replied ' oh that was nothing'..It is my belief that yes a family member or friend removed a dead Lisa from the house, the clothes were removed because of vomit, or blood and burnt at the dumpster.

Le Rette family member has already posted on Facebook a hint the cell phones will be found in the woods.

The PR Campaign is gathering momentum and I now fear due to the cadaver dog hit this is not a financial hoax and whatever they have done with Lisa's remains they have made damn sure they will never be found. Cyndy Short promoting Irwins webpage and talking of handing out wristbands..we already know Ashley Irwin is selling T Shirts for $15 each...waiting for the Paypal button to go on the site and the selling of wristbands, t.shirts etc.

No one has yet asked Ashley what she did with the money she collected from the speedway ?

SteelMagnolia said...

Pat, Nancy Grace show looks like the Lisa Irwin witness is a plant...we will be having a en egg head sketch in a minute like the McCanns ever changing abductor LOL

If you can look at the footage when Judge Jeanine ask Bradley about the October 4th sighting ...when she ' claims it was nothing ask a body expert to check her facial expression.

And why if this sighting was nothing are the defence going to so much trouble to USE IT but in their own way avoiding the October 4th witness who said the man with child tried to hide when her husband saw him !

BigbabbsKC said...

I hadn't heard that the man saw walking was tall, thin & balding (Jeremy Irwin). I don't think I ever read here KC that he actually had an alibi as to where he was (other than he was at work - first overnight job); was he working with someone? My husband is an electrician and sometimes is by himself - Jeremy's deal isn't swimming with me. So leaving and returning could easily happen.

Snoozebuttons said...

I can usually see things or pick up things when people have been killed/murdered, or missing.. but the whole story doesn't add up.

For starters the mother is still married to 1st husband, could he be the father of the baby Lisa? Why aren't they divorced? If she is not married yet to Jeremy Irwin why is she using his last name? She keeps calling him her husband - are they married? For Jeremy he shows no remorse, no affection, he is just blah.

Then you have the fishy story, she went to the store to buy wine or alcohol, who had her brother take her. Was this a common thing for her to do all the time, or just a 1 time thing? She claims she was drunk, where is the proof? How often does she get drunk? She has kids in her care and doesn't care about getting or being drunk? What would happen if her kids ended up vomiting or got sick, or home invasion while she decided to get drunk? Here you have a baby and drinking alone, that is messed up! Where are the kids? Home alone? Jeremy had to work night shift was the times verified? Did he leave at all? It could have been him walking with a baby those hours of the night.

Were they in financial debt or something? Or maybe Jeremy isn't the father and found out. It sounds more like a set up... the mother goes and buys alcohol claims to be drunk and the husband or whatever he is supposedly is working they could have sold their or her baby. He could have been walking around with the baby Lisa early morning hours to sell, kill, or give away and then come home at 4am to call police baby Lisa was missing.

Here the Mother claims baby Lisa was sick, if that is the case why was the Mother drinking and getting drunk? Why didn't baby Lisa have more clothes on? When a child is sick you want to keep close eye on the baby what would happen if a baby vomited or something you don't want her to choke on it..

Also if her other kids were in the home at the same time, and the Mother claims to see baby Lisa at 6:40pm what time did her other kids go to bed? If the Mother passed out as she claims was that before or after her kids went to bed? If her kids heard noises why haven't they been separated from the Mother and Jeremy? Usually when kids are separated from so called parents they talk more. How can the kids still be in her care, when she admitted she was drinking and passed out in their care? I do think the kids need to be away from the so called parents and placed in foster care or with the 1st husband vs her relatives. I know the 1st husband is Army but why did he never divorce her? Has he even seen his son or when was the last time he seen his son?

And you have this family talking in past tense all the time..I really don't believe the baby Lisa was abducted, maybe abducted by Jeremy Irwin, but I don't buy their story. Its more like a cover up for a crime that was committed. I wonder how much alcohol does Deborah need in order to be considered drunk or passed out? Maybe she wanted to be drunk and not see the death of a child or want to remember the truth story of this fake story. The dog didn't bark so she assumes - how would they know if she was passed out? The kids heard noises but the Mother didn't want to scare them or want to know what they heard- that raises flags right there! She left the front door unlocked - was she expecting someone? They reported 3 cell phones were taken from the home, and the baby, but nothing else was taken.. I really think the whole thing was a set up, and the parents are involved.

BigbabbsKC said...

Deborah Bradley isn't divorced from first husband (estranged). He (first husband) was intereviewed and it was posted on website. I still say where is Deborah Bradley's brother (the one who drove her to grocery; and the neighbor she got drunk with?) It is a mystery - scratching our heads daily - someones gotta give more info. The police are going to "talk" to the half-brothers and do DNA testing on Friday. Really how much is an 8 or 5 year old going to say - either a ton of info or just clam up and say nothing. This should get interested.

jessa said...

I would like to know more about this "ex-boyfriend" of the girl who received the 50 second phone call from LB's phone whom of which she doesn't know, but she and her "ex" had driven by there before.. she seemed real shaken up on the video, and said she had been interviewed by police i think 4 times? about the phone call she says she knows nothing about.

Anonymous said...

Maria said Yesterday Nov, 4th, 2011 come to my business a Hispanic men asking for money for gas because he no has a job , his wife and baby are in his car, I asked him if I can said her and his baby hi, and he told me yes, then when the young girl saw me she was relay nervous and she
avoid show me her face and w/ her hands try to cover the baby face I was very uncomfortable and the baby face look like little Lissa, my hart start to jump very strong, the young girl have strong similarity w/ Deborah Bradley but younger. I Call police.

Cindy J. said...

Hi Pat,

According to recent news stories about how the FBI and CIA tracked various terrorists,the FBI is able to trace cell phones even when they're turned off, as long as there is a battery.

It isn't really all that strange for the cell phones to be missing. If you are going to abduct a child, the last thing you want is to have to someone wake up and grab a cell phone to call 911 while you're still near enough to the house to be caught.
There have even been CSI type shows where an abductor forces the victim to discard his cell phone. However, it is unusual that the lights were left on.

Anonymous said...

Why would the parents of a "kidnapped" child leave the residence and the baby's things behind to stay with relatives? Wouldn't an Innocent family stay in case a "kidnapper" wanted to get in touch with them? Or be near their baby's things? Wouldn't an innocent mother want to hold her baby's blankets and breathe in her baby's scent? Yes they would. . .yet these parents couldn't leave fast enough.

Anonymous said...

I am very aware of the baby Lisa Case. I live down the road from where it happened. The police need to look into a man name Jeff Tucker who use to live in the basement as a roommate. When they kicked him out I know for a fact the was more than just upset about this he wanted revenge. I don't want to release my name but, if the look into that....

Anonymous said...

I am aware of the baby Lisa case. I live close by and know the house. The police need to look into a man by the name of JEFF TUCKER. He once was a roommate of the family and lived in the basement of baby Lisa home!!!! I know that this person was beyond mad about being kicked out( for not paying rent) so much in fact he wanted revenge. I don't want to release my name.... If the parents could tell the police about this person as a possible suspect. It has bothered me for many years.... And I just watched the special and I just can't shake the feeling that he might have done something to that poor baby.

Anonymous said...

I just realized that my 1st message didn't erase and said the same thing. I just to get the message out and would love a response back so I can sleep better if this person has been looked into. Also where the clothes were Burnt he used to buy drugs from people that lived in that complex. It's across from a 7-11.