Well, folks, let's try not be too upset about this. The Manson Family Today website reported this afternoon that Charles Manson groupie and convicted murderer Susan Atkins (photos then and now) is dying of brain cancer and has only weeks to live. At her 1970 trial for the Tate/LaBianca murders, she snickered and laughed, seemingly oblivious to the horro
r of her crimes, yet in later years she was commended for saving the lives of other inmates. Atkins has been eligible for parole off and on, but it has consistently been denied. She once filed a lawsuit claiming to be a political prisoner. Atkins, who turned sixty just yesterday, has said that she became a born-again Christian in prison. Since she'll soon be meeting her maker, let's hope she did.
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r of her crimes, yet in later years she was commended for saving the lives of other inmates. Atkins has been eligible for parole off and on, but it has consistently been denied. She once filed a lawsuit claiming to be a political prisoner. Atkins, who turned sixty just yesterday, has said that she became a born-again Christian in prison. Since she'll soon be meeting her maker, let's hope she did. 
235 comments:
1 – 200 of 235 Newer› Newest»All I can think of to say to this is that she'll be dying a more pleasant death than those she murdered.
I believe brain cancer can be incredibly painful, but still, very true. And, of course, she was given an additional forty years of life and time to try to make amends. As I said, I hope she has, as much as is possible for such terrible crimes.
I won't pretend to be overwhelmed with compassion for Atkins - but it is all so sad. What a waste of human lives, all the way around.
It is a waste. You know, her eyes look weird but other than that she is a very attractive woman. I am surprised by that.
Not a great article. Could have been more in-depth and more informative.
That's true, but then again, it was a breaking news alert, not a major piece. The longer article today is Katherine Scardino's. Ah, well. Such is life.
Thanks for the news alert, KC. I wasn't aware of her health situation. I agree with Rae, what a sad situation all around. I hope whatever lessons she learned in this life will be of use in her next.
You're welcome, Jan. It's hard to believe it's been so many years. I remember the uproar over the murders and the chaos of the trials. Guess this means I'm getting old..Sheesh! Helter Skelter has always been one of my favorite TC books.
I had read earlier this week that she was in the hospital, but they couldn't say where or why, so thank you for this update. I agree that she will have a much easier death than her victims did since she will probably be given medication for her pain.
That's true, Sibby. And it's doubtful that she'll experienced the terror Sharon Tate and the others did. Just think: Tate's baby would be middle-aged now. Life flies by.
She also is not lying there pleading to have her baby knowing someone is going to kill her. They laughed at Sharon Tate. They told her she would die. I find it hard to believe she just changed her innermost self.
I think that sometimes God has a twisted sense of justice. If she is truely repentant then I suppose she will be ready to meet her maker.
I am the webmaster of TateFamilyLegacy.com and SharonTate.net. I run both sites for the sister of Sharon Tate, Debra Tate.
When Debra was asked by the press to comment on Susan's illness she had this to say:
"I do think it is appropriate that they all will pass away while they are incarcerated, I don't trust that they are less sociopathic than when they committed the murders 40 years ago.
I really do feel badly for her family."
I feel that pretty much sums it up.
Someone made the comment that the article here didn't have much detail. I will tell you that there is not much detail available. The California Department of Corrections is unable to release information about her illness due to privacy laws. The information about her disease and current condition was apparently released by her husband, who has also represented her as her lawyer at parole hearings.
On a personal note, (My own opinion) while I don't wish death on anyone, I'm glad that as time passes and the members of the Manson Family become ill and pass on, the Victim's families will not have to attend their parole hearings. There's rarely a year that goes by when Debra does not have to attend the parole hearing of one of these killers. I can tell you that this is stressful on her and on the other members of the victim's families that attend.
TateLegacy, may I just say that my condolences and sympathy are with Debra and her family. I can only imagine the struggle and the pain that all this has brought her over the years-her courage and her strength is an example to us all.
Your sites are beautifully done, as well.
Thanks for posting, TateLegacy! We're very happy to hear your views. Drop in again, anytime. Also, there's something I'd like to discuss with you. Please email me at kc@kathryncasey.com. Thanks
Pues siento mucho la enfermedad de Susan, si es cierto que tiene cáncer. Le deseo pronta recuperacióny me gustarÃa que a Susan y el resto les dejaran libres ya porque han pagado suficientemente su castigo. Me gustarÃa saber por otra parte si alguna persona sabe dónde vive en la actualidad Dianne Lake (Skake).
Gracias
Pues siento mucho la enfermedad de Susan, si es cierto que tiene cáncer. Le deseo pronta recuperacióny me gustarÃa que a Susan y el resto les dejaran libres ya porque han pagado suficientemente su castigo. Me gustarÃa saber por otra parte si alguna persona sabe dónde vive en la actualidad Dianne Lake (Skake).
Gracias
Couldn't disagree with you more Fernando, I don't believe Susan Atkins or any of the family members convicted of the killings have "paid enough" for the crimes they committed and therefore deserve to be released. They took away several lives - nothing can bring them back, so at the very least they should pay with their freedom and spend the rest of their own lives in jail.
The Manson killers scare me, and like Debra Tate said, I just can't trust they're rehabilitated, even after all these years in prison. Even though I don't wish harm on anyone I can't help but feel there is some poetic justice to this.
oh, waaaaaaaaaaah
I wouldn't think as one post said "God has a twisted sense of justice", maybe God is just finally giving her the "justice" she deserved, but didn't get the first time around. Ain't karma a bitch!
What did she say to Sharon Tate as she pled for the life of her unborn baby? "Look bitch, I dont care about you or your baby."
Well Susan, I dont care about you or the fact that your dying a slow painful death. Couldn't happen to a better person.
Hope hell is hot enough for you!
I was a young girl when these heinous crimes were committed. As a teenager, I was fascinated with the "Helter Skelter" story. As a middle-aged adult, I'm deeply horrified by it all. I don't wish any of the "Manson Family" members ill; I believe Karma is their great equalizer.
In Susan Atkins' case, from all I've read it would seem she has no remorse for or true comprehension of her crimes. It almost seems as if she believes she's spent enough time behind bars and we should release her for good behavior.
This seems to illuminate a blind-spot in her psyche. Of course she's born again! If she hadn't been, her rottenness would've eaten her up by now.
Incarceration for 39 years, brain cancer, and an amputated leg aren't payment enough for her crimes. Yet they seem Karmic in nature, would you agree? I am very sad for the families of all her victims. They weren't allowed to live to see 60.
Where was the 'compassionate release' of Sharon Tate and her unborn child? Or the 'compassionate release' of the others? BS. Let her rot in jail and then in hell.
She deserves no mercy. Wasn't she the one who told Sharon Tate "I have no mercy for you"?
You reap what you sow!
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So this chick is 60 years old. She has spent most of her life in jail and does not have that time worn, care worn look most 60 year old women have. No, she got 3 squares a day and didn't have to worry about holding a job, kids, college or any of that. No wonder she looks good. I'm younger than this chick, but the cares of the world show on my face. How old was Sharon Tate when she died? I think 26. I can't imagine anyone who could possibly feel sorry for her. For my part, if her death is very painful, she deserves that. If she has made peace with God, how nice for her. As far as here on earth goes, no matter what her condition, she doesn't deserve a nice vacation from jail because she's sick. Sharon Tate was a gorgeous, sweet, woman, who didn't deserve what she got - she didn't get any breaks!! Kay from NJ
Again, after viewing hours of parole hearings for Susan Atkins, she is still without any type of remorse for her part
She did help in the gymnastics training for the prison ,and assisting the EMS, but other than that , she was nothing more that a cold blooded killer who did it for her love of Charlie.
She had a good upbringing, she chose to run away from home, chose to do drugs, chose to use the system, and chose to kill an unsuspecting mother that did nothing to hurt anyone.
Die Susan, please, but take your time, let Karma pay you back for what you did to a poor woman who begged that you save her baby..Die Susan, and do the world a favor...
Susan Atkins should suffer the same way that Sharon and the others did. Someone should cut out her stomach and let her bleed to death. I'd love to watch!!!!!
It really was saddening to think that humans are so inherently evil that one of them could kill a pregnant woman whose only wish before she died was for her unborn child to live. Still, it is important that humans show compassion for those who have not shown any. The way I see the situation is that even if Atkins is released, she is already 'dead.'
Yo creo que ahora mismo esta gente no deberÃa estar ya en prisión. Casi 40 años es demasiado tiempo para cualquier persona por mucho mal que haya hecho. Además casi todos han mostrado su arrepentimiento y mi religión dice que hay que perdonar.
Death from ANY cancer is usually horrific and painful. Still, in Ms. Atkins' case, her pending death probably won't come with the terror that her victims felt. Denied parole 11 times and a "convert" to Christianity around 1980, we still wonder if Ms. Atkins has ever accepted and surrender her basic inhumanity that fueled her crimes. If she has, she may stand a chance at redemption; if not, her eternity will be deserved.
Listen.....Susan is in God's hands right now. Just like OJ and numerous others. God is the ultimate judge.....He judges the heart. It doesn't matter what any of us think.....our desire should be that we have a pure heart of forgiveness before God......about anyone that has hurt us or someone we love. Easy to say, yet hard to accomplish.
Let it go.......God can handle it.
I believe Sharon Tate pleaded for her life and her baby's life and now the tables have turned. What goes around, comes around. Susan showed no compassion for Sharon, why should "compassion" be used in the case of Susan Atkins????? NOT
Why should anyone here have any type of pity on this scum. Why, would you have such love and care if the same thing had happened to your child, your mother or father, son, daughter?
In the Bible, its says "an eye for an eye" We are just stating that we feel she should suffer, suffer like Sharon and the rest of those poor people did back in 69. Its called KARMA, and its a bitch when it knocks on your door
She had NO REMORSE, NO REMORSE what so ever, and she even planned to kill a state trooper from prison. She was questioned at her parole hearing about this incident, and she callously denied it
She deserves to die, a very slow painful death, she ruined her family and the Tate family
Susan, you took someones life, now its time to pay for what you did...........
Why should Susan Atkins be set free. She should rot in hell for what she did. What makes it worse, is that she took a baby's life away. She should die a very very slowly painful death
drugs, black magic, karma and shady acquaintances make for dangerous situations. i am not talking about the manson family either. there is more to the story than bugliosi's book, but perhaps a short trip into the normal world is exactly what would help susan understand what she did.
..the gates of hell yawn before you Susan...
I don't feel onoe iota of compassion for Susan. I feel bad for Debra and her family having to relive this every time one of these old crows comes up for parole. They all should have been executed years ago and saved the taxpayers a truck load of money. Once you kill a begging pregnant woman there is no going back no matter how many different Jesuses you worship. I agree her death no matter how painful will be easier than Sharon's and the other victims.
I saw her live interview on the news channel, Diane Sawyer. I felt that Susan was genuine in her remorse. I don't think the others are, not that I have seen from the news interviwes. I do think that they should allow Susan to die at home. She is too sick to get out of bed now, they said. My concern is, that if they let her out, then what about all the other criminals who want out? Will they let them out too? Lastly, Susan does have a husband who is her attorney. He can provide for her in the short period of time she would be home until her death. I don't feel the other clan members should be released at all.
I am the webmaster for TateFamilyLegacy.com.
We are now encouraging you to write the Board of Prison terms to voice your concern about the possible "compassionate release" of Susan Atkins.
Atkins was convicted of murder and conspiracy to commit murder for the combined Tate-Labianca murders and the murder of Gary Hinman.
She received the death sentence, however, in February 1972, the death sentences of all Manson Family members awaiting execution, were automatically reduced to life in prison by California v. Anderson, in which the Supreme Court of California abolished the death penalty in that state.
Now, on July 15th, 2008 the board of prison terms will meet and decide if Atkins should receive "compassionate release" due to having a terminal illness.
You need to send your letter ASAP to make sure that your letter is considered.
You can send your letters to:
James Davis
Board of Prison Terms
1515 K Street
Suite 600
Sacramento, CA 95814
Re: Susan Denise Atkins (Whitehouse?)
Bid for Compassionate Release
CDC # W-08304
July 15th, 2008
Earlier this week Good Morning America aired part of a 2002 interview with mass murderer Susan Atkins, conducted by Diane Sawyer.
Sawyer had interviewed Atkins' fellow Manson Family members Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkel in 1994 for the premiere episode of ABC's Turning Point news program. At that time Atkins declined to be interviewed.
During this 2002 interview Atkins claimed to not be a monster. (This claim was unsubstantiated.) She smiled, cried and spoke in a small voice. She is seen leading what appears to be some sort of class, or group, in prison. Later, Sawyer is at the head of the classroom and she asks the prisoners who among them has had the most parole hearings. They all look at Atkins who, while smiling, raises her hand high. They all laugh.
Atkins talks about not wanting to "live a life with any unforgiveness in it." But she's talking about her forgiving others, not the other way around.
Clips from a recent interview with Atkins' husband were shown as well. However, there was no interview with any family member of any of Ms. Atkins' eight victims. (Sawyer did read an excerpt from a letter Col. Paul Tate wrote to the board of prison terms.)
Sawyer interviewed Debra Tate and Anthony DiMaria (nephew of Jay Sebring) a few years ago, and the Turning Point episode from 1994 included an interview with Patti Tate, so she had ample material from which to gather clips that would have represented some of the victims' families.
Sawyer ended the program by asking that viewers let them know what they think about the "remaining days" of Atkins. Judging by the 151 comments posted (as of this writing) the overwhelming majority believe that Atkins should remain a prisoner until her death.
In 1985, Taking no personal responsibility, but blaming the media and her "past", Atkins said:
"I would like anonymity. I would like to not be known as the Susan Atkins that the media and my tragic past created."
It's worth noting that despite stating she wanted anonymity Atkins authored two books about her part in the murders.
The first was The Killing of Sharon Tate, which was her account of the Tate-Labianca murders, and the other was an autobiography - Child of Satan, Child of God.
We were recently told of a claim, made on another website, that Child of Satan, Child of God made fourteen million dollars.
That seems incredible, especially considering it was released in the 1970's.
Regardless of how much it made not one penny went to her victim's families.
She claimed that she gave her proceeds to a man who was supposed to open a Christian foundation. She later claimed he duped her and disappeared with the money.
When asked by the parole board why she didn't give some of the proceeds to her victim's families she said she "never thought of it."
Who will pay?
One argument put forth by those who say that Atkins should be released is once she is released the cost for her medical care will become the burden of her husband and herself, rather than the CA taxpayers.
Susan Atkins has been an inmate for almost 40 years. She claims that she did not profit from the two books she wrote. It seems that when she comes out of prison she would not be able to support herself financially and would not be physically able to obtain employment.
IF Susan Atkins is released, and IF she or her family do not have the money to pay for her medical care then who will pay?
Will the cost of that potentially un-reimbursed health care be passed on to the taxpayer in the form of higher insurance rates?
Releasing Susan Atkins is of no benefit to society and would make no difference in the life of Atkins herself. Her own husband has said that barring a miracle she will remain in the hospital if given compassionate release or not.
Hi my name is Megan
I am from Sydney australia. I know that Miss Atkins committed a truly awful crime but she was a kid and she was crazy just crazy. She is a 60year old women and I think she sld be free. Lets face it with brain cancer it is going to be a God awful 6 mths so wouldnt it be better to release her. 40 years is a long time the community needs to get over it some way . thankyou
And now she expects compassion?Where was the compassion for Sharon Tate and her unborn child,When Sharon was begging for the life of her unborn child Susan replied:I have no mercy for you.
Well Susan,now we have no mercy for you!!
You people are so calioused and unforgiving. Yes, Susan was involved in some horrible crimes but she is dying and no one profits from holding her in prison. It doesn't bring anyone back from the dead when she dies. What satisfaction do you get from leaving her in prison? I have mercy and compassion for her and so does the Lord. Love your enemies...why not try LOVE instead of hate.
I am going to write a letter asking for her release.
Dear Annonymous,
When you have a loved one murdered in their own home get back to me.
And I know you'll probably now post back that you indeed did have a loved one murdered.
Save it.
I can not understand how people can rush to sympathize with a horrible murderer such as Susan Atkins. I do not care how much time has passed by, or how many times she was born again, she savagely butchered several innocent people. Those people did absolutely NOTHING to deserve such a horrible fate, not that anyone deserves that. She viciously stabbed a young woman just DAYS away from the birth of her first child. A young woman begging and pleading for her life and the life of that innocent baby who never even got to take his first breath. Look what Ms. Atkins took away from that young womans parents, siblings and husband--not just their loved one, but the joyous occasion of welcoming that tiny baby into the world. And then, at her trial, Ms.Atkins laughed, actually LAUGHED at her terrible deeds! And people are feeling sympathy for her?!? WHY? She told Sharon Tate as she was stabbing the life out of her, "Woman, I have no mercy for you!" And that is exactly what I would like to say to Ms. Atkins.
Now please excuse me, I have a letter to write to the California Department of Corrections....
I will in deed send a letter to keep her in prison.Why would they let a monster out.Sharon never got to meet her new baby.So she needs to rot in hell (prison)for what she did this is no excuse.
How can you have compassion for a monster.Where was love when sharon was being stabbed ,how could you even forgive someone like that.Iam not a hateful person but for her iam.Iam a mother of 4 teenagers and if that was one of my children who was murdered i could not ever forgive.Her life is over and susans life should be over ,the only way she should get out of prison is in a body bag..
I’ve followed the unfolding story of these three women for many years. I was a child in Southern Calif. when the crimes occurred, and remember my mother’s horror and confusion when she talked about the case.
There are questions here that will never be answered, that I have pondered in my own mind. How could three seemingly normal young women commit such horrible acts? Is it crazily POSSIBLE that, being placed in the same circumstances, with the same set of life experiences, at the same time in history, at the same age, I myself could do something like this? I don’t know. Not for certain. No one really does.
All three of these ladies seemingly have worked very hard, over a long, long period of time, to make something of their lives, and their time in prison. They are to be commended for that. If they choose to use their experiences, and their inner work, to help others avoid their fate, and live better, more productive lives, then there may be some measure of good that they provide to society. I acknowledge that, and commend also the courage and effort shown by each to grow and mature in this way. That takes guts. Many prisoners do nothing of the sort.
All this being said, there is perpetually the issue of whether or not any of these women should ever be released from prison. Hard, hard decision.
Of the three women, I must say that Atkins has always been, for me, the most frightening. Her activities and statements before, during, and since her trial have been in varying degrees vicious, heartless, cold, cruel, or just simply emotionless. The term sociopath seems to apply here. While both Van Houten and Krenwinkle have repeatedly stated and acknowledged, over the years, their exact activities and involvement in the crimes, Atkins has continually changed her story, alternately admitting, and then absolving herself from guilt. Her story has changed
many times over the years–now she says that
she never actually killed anyone. What?
Atkins was a key player in both the activities of one of the most horrific crime sprees in history, AND the media circus and subsequent unrelenting fascination of the media. At the time, she seemed utterly happy with her role. She has paid, and is paying the price for her actions so long ago. There is a strange Karma at work here, that she is now dying in an extremely unpleasant, drawn out way.
I can feel compassion in that the prison system should certainly care for her in a humane way, until her death. However, I see no reason that she should be released from prison. to die with any special consideration. She gave no compassion to her victims, either during or after their deaths. They were left to a painful, frightening demise on the floor, or on a front lawn. The prison hospital will be sufficient for her.
God take her soul. She will answer to a higher source.
Los Angeles, CA
I agree with most on here the women should just ROT in jail and never be let out. Let her die in jail and never see the light of day in the outside world . She is nothing but a COLD BLOODED KILLER ! She is the same as she was when she killed Sharon Tate ! How could anyone she be changed after what she did...no she has NOT!!! She will always be a Killer!!! The devil will be greeting His Prize at his door when she dies!!!!!
I really hate it when people pull the old "Keeping her in prison won't bring back the dead." Ok, so why don't we just let ALL murderers go free? Keeping them in prison will not bring back their dead victims! Let's start with wild eyed Charlie Manson! And when these monsters show up at YOUR house to kill you, maybe, just maybe, in your terror, you will think differently....
Without taking a stand one way or the other, Thats why we have a system much better equipped to deal with these issue's far better than the average "let her rot in jail" or " burn in hell" types. I find the most discompassionate of all these post are the one's who invoke religious reasoning to justify their position, I think what she did 40 yrs ago was heinous, I also think humanity has a long way to go, for though none of you hoprfully will ever commit the acts she has, alot of you show the same amount of compassion she showed to her victims, that being none---GO FIGURE
In Matt.19:17 Jesus said ''only God is good.''
In Romans it says ''all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.''
All of us at one time or another has broken one or more of God's law.
John 3:16 says that God so loved the world that HE gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Galatians 6:7-8; declares that God will not be mocked and we shall reap bad and/or good harvest. Only God knows Susan Atkin's heart, but according to her deeds she's very blessed she didn't die by the death penalty a long time ago. God has been merciful to her in allowing her to live a long life behind bars. Also according to her words she is ''saved''; and if that's true then all the bad deeds she's ever committed are under Christ's blood and as far as HE's concerned she's declared Righteous in that day. In that DAY is all that really matters for us all.
We all need his blood to cover all of our sin as well.
I believe she needs to finish her life behind bars and may God have mercy on her soul.
CORRECTION TO ADDRESS I GAVE BEFORE TO SEND LETTERS ADDRESSING COMPASSIONATE RELEASE FOR SUSAN ATKINS:
IMPORTANT NEW ADDRESS TO SEND LETTERS OPPOSING COMPASSIONATE RELEASE FOR SUSAN ATKINS
If you have not sent your letter opposing compassionate release for Susan Atkins please send them to the address below:
Exec. Officer Martin Hoshino
Board of Parole Hearings
P O Box 4036
Sacramento CA 95814
RE: Susan Denise Atkins
CDC # W-08304
Compassionate Release Consideration
If you have already sent your letter to the address we previously gave, we apologize for the mix-up and ask that you resend it if you can to the address above.
It's important that the board recieve your letter as soon as possible. They will consider Ms. Atkins case in just over two weeks. If you send it now it should get there in time for the board to consider.
Your letter must conain Ms. Atkins' full name and CDC # and be signed by you.
We appreciate your time and your support in this matter
Tate Family Legacy
Susan only has to answer to one God for her sin. But she has given her life to the state and haveing cancer is no way to live if she was to get the compasionate release. She is not a teenager anymore and has definately changed. You see I spent week after week sitting at a table in visiting with Susan and her husband James. She certainly won't be living it up, she will be dieing of Brain Cancer. I have been caught up on meth and what I do know fo sure is that you don't feel anything like guilt of pain when you are high. I hope Susan can die in the arms of a good man her husband James and Her father up above. May good comfort susan and her husband in these last days. Darbie
Well said, Darbie! My son was diagnoised with terminal brain cancer at 16 years of age and left this world 37 months later surrounded by people who loved him, but I doubt that made much difference to him, because he didn't know it. A time like that is not for the patient, it is for the people who love that patient, the patient will have no more pain,but the ones left behind will. I know what Susan Atkins did,I was a young girl at the time and I remember. But her family and loved ones commited no crime, so why punish them? Yes the Bible says an eye for an eye, but it also says that if we can't forgive others God won't forgive us. When He was dying on the cross, I believe He said "Father forgive them,for they know not what they do" and He was talking about the ones who were torturing and killing Him. If Jesus can forgive I can at least try. Christy
What else did Sadie say she did?" "She said she was holding Sharon Tate's arms behind her, and that Sharon Tate looked at her and she said she was crying and said to her, 'Please, please don't kill me, I don't want to die. 1just want to have my baby.' She said, 'And I looked Sharon straight in the eye and I said to her, "Look, bitch, you might as well face it right now, you're going to die, and I don't feel a thing behind it," and in a few minutes she was dead.' "
"Did Susan Atkins say whether she in fact killed Sharon Tate?"
"Yes, she did."
"What did she say?"
"She said, 'I killed her.' "
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/manson/mansontestimony-g.html
CHOICES
Susan Atkins should be released on compassionate ground or not. That’s a choice. Following considerations might facilitate your decisions one way or another.
1) Did Susan Atkins really kill Sharon Tate? The jurors, the judge and everyone in the courtroom in 1970 might have heard Susan say that she did. But is it TRUE that she did? Yes, that’s what they wanted to hear, and that’s what they heard. But it is interestingly absurd that most of us, until now, rarely doubt the credibility of what Susan said.
2) What if Atkins really killed Tate, and all other victims, by herself even without help of anyone else, without influence of any drugs, then what are the benefits of keeping her in jail when she is near death like right now? Let’s try the following reasons:
a. Gratification for the Tate family and other victims.
b. For Susan to learn the enormity of her crime.
c. To make a better society where love dominates.
d. To show justice (as Sharon’s dad suggested in a letter).
e. To deter future crimes.
f. To save money for Susan’s husband and her loved ones.
g. You name it.
In fact,
a. Yes, locking her up until her death would be some gratification for the Tate and other victims. But obviously if the Tate and other victim families officially wrote a letter to the board to ask for Atkins’ pardon, they would earn an ever lasting praise from the whole world. The victim families would be much more gratified with the second option.
b. Atkins did learn about the enormity of her crime. We all know that. Even the Tate family acknowledges that on their website. Hence this is not a question anymore.
c. “Monkey see, monkey do” is what will happen after the victims forgive Atkins. The whole world will be impressed and encouraged to do goods.
d. Justice has already been carried out. Atkins is being executed by her Creator with the cancer in a couple of weeks. She has been spoon fed by shame, pain, guilt and disgrace everyday for the last 40 years. Separation from her own child alone is a big punishment for her.
e. If Atkins is still young and healthy, then locking her up would deter crimes, but it’s not the case now. Remember, Atkins, herself did not ask for a release. Her husband did. So even for her, it’s not important anymore. But it is only important for her husband. Further depriving her of freedom only hurts her husband and/or her family. How many criminal individuals care for their families before committing a crime? None! That’s why they are criminal. In other words, deterring or punishing becomes meaningless in this case.
f. Atkins’ husband is smart enough to raise the necessary money to pay for her medical as well as her funeral expenses. Meanwhile, if she dies in the prison, we, the taxpayers, will have to pay at least 10 times more for those expenses.
At the end of the day, what we expect from all these is the best for everyone. We don’t want to punish someone without any result. On the contrary, once the result has been obtained, just let the sinner walk free. The victims will be praised forever. The inmate’s family would not be otherwise hurt by what they did not do. A lot of people will be inspired by our compassion and live a better life. That’s the best way to deter crime.
Tony Nguyen
Corona, CA
Whether you believe she should got out of prison or not, the point is that she has spent 40 years in incarcerated for a crime that, if it had been anyone but a Manson family member, would have been paroled years ago because of good behavior.
If this had been anyone else we wouldn't be talking about it. She would be out and that would be the end of the story.
But justice can't be based on public sentiment or on the publicity surrounding the crime itself.
The question should be if her name were not connected with Manson - would she still be in prison?
I lost my wife to brain cancer (grade 2 astrocytoma in the cerebellum) on January 18, 2000 after 21 months of pitiless tragic struggle. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Cancer is your body self-destructing--eating itself alive. She should be allowed to go home and die with those who love her--she damn sure won't be partying it up much--rather she will be writhing in pain for a good part of the time--when she isn't puking her guts up. She would have gone home years ago save for her unfortunate association with that Manson character. She has paid society's price for her crime.
I am writing in regard to the compassionate release petition by Susan Atkins as she suffers from a terminal illness.
The case is a controversial one and many believe there are a multitude of reasons to leave her incarcerated (in the hospital), not least of which are the wishes of the families of the victims.
However, there are some practical, financial reasons to allow her the compassionate release (as recommended by the Chino Institute for Women). Ms. Atkins has been in the hospital since mid-March and will remain there (or under some other type of medical/hospice care) until her passing. The financial and logistical burden this places on the system is likely to be enormous. According to a Harvard study the cost of care for a terminally patient for an 8 day average is $26,000. Susan has already been in the hospital for about 100 days at a potential cost of $325,000. Depending on the length of the remainder of her life, the cost could be an additional $585,000. This of course does not include the correctional personnel who need to guard her 24 hours a day, seven days a week in extra-ordinary conditions.
Does the State of California really want to pay $1,000,000 to take care of a terminally ill patient/inmate? Would it not be an economically wise decision to release Susan to the medical and financial care of her husband who can better see to her end of life needs?
I urge the Parole Board to consider the compassionate release request of Susan Atkins, releasing her as soon as possible to die with dignity and alleviating the financial burden placed upon the State.
I'VE READ MOST OF YOUR COMMENTS,AND YES SHE WAS CONVICTED OF MURDER,BUT YOU PEOPLE DO NOT SEEM TO REALIZE THAT THERE IS PEOPLE NOW THAT DO MURDERS AND ARE OUT IN 10 YRS. I DON'T AGREE WITH WHAT SHE HAD DONE, BUT I FEEL SHE SHOULD BE PAROLED, SHE'S DONE MORE TIME THAN ANY GANG BANGER HAS DONE.
I THINK IF THE PEOPLE MURDERED WERE NOT FAMOUS THIS WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT OUT COME.
yes, she probably would have been paroled already, however, she murdered several people, and in a very, very gruesome way.
I was only 7 years old when these events occured and I remember them being very frightening for a child. But I found comfort in knowing they received the death penalty and would never be released. But then the death penalty was removed and all received life. I was able to feel relief in that they would remain incarcerated. Now they want to release her for sympathetic reasons? A sentence should be a sentence regardlous of their health. If the state didn't intend to complete the sentence they never should have given it. Innocense should be the only reason for release and God knows she's not innocent. Who cares that she is dying. And to say that she probably would have been released already is a ridiculous statement. If things were right she would have been executed already and this subject wouldn't be a discussion. As for her husband she never should have been allowed to marry while in prison.
Tex Watson, another of the murderous bunch, was also given death, and then it was commuted to life in prison. He is still in prison, was allowed to marry and have conjugal visits with his wife and fathered four children! (I have no idea who marries these murderous creeps or why they are allowed such freedoms when they are supposed to be in prison....)
Anyhow, years ago, at one of his parole hearings, he quietly told the parole board he just wanted "to go home and raise his children." To which Doris Tate, Sharon's mother, replied, "Isn't that all my daughter wanted?!?" At least Tex Watson's wife was not stabbed to death two weeks before giving birth....
I remember reading in a book authored by a retired FBI profiler, who stated that he believed anyone who murders must have some sort of a mental problem.
I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist or anything of the sort, but I must agree with him. Every one of the Manson bunch, in my eyes, is nothing more than a psychopath. I do not care to hear about drugs, brain washing, etc. If you are unable to feel for another's pain, you are a psychopath! Isn't it interesting how Susan Atkins can whine for leniency and ask for mercy when she certainly provided none to her victims? And how Tex Watson can ask to go home to raise his kids (whom he never should have been allowed to create) when he prevented several other people from doing just that?
Patricia Krenwinkle, another 'family' member, has stated that she is a destroyer of life and life is sacred and she has to wake up every morning knowing that she is a destroyer of life. Sounds quite remorseful doesn't it? But then, at a recent parole hearing, she was asked who she harmed the most. Her reply? "Myself." Herself?!? What about Abigail Folger, who was stabbed multiple times on the front lawn at the young age of 25? I kind of think she suffered a bit more than her murderer!
The people who find pity for these criminals need to remember that you can not deal with psychopaths like you can with 'normal' folks. Of course they are on their best behavior, they are jailed and wanting to get out. Too bad they were not executed like they should have been.
First of all COMPASSIONATE RELEASE....ARE U KIDDING ME. DIE IN JAIL, you get no compassion, you didn't have compassion stabbing Sharon Tate and her baby to death. I hope you don't get released and die in jail a painful death as YOU inflicted upon your victim.
Are you guys stupid? You all don't even know her. My mom was in the same prison camp as her and I got to know her. If you saw her you would not believe she's Susan Atkins. She should have been released years ago. She is a heavy christain now and she's very intelligent and proper. She is remorseful for her crimes but let me remind you that Charles Manson was the one that influenced them to do it so you all should be pissed off at him. She shpuld be released. Her husband visits her every saturday and sunday WITHOUT FAIL. She deserves to live her last days outside of bars and die peacefully.
Who really cares how 'nice' she is? I am willing to bet that all of her victims were EVEN NICER, seeing as how they never committed crimes and ended up in prison, they were all productive citizens of society, they were not dumb enough to follow a drug addled, wild eyed Charlie Manson, and they were INNOCENT VICTIMS, especially that little baby boy who was only weeks away from starting his life with the Mommy who wanted him so badly.
Your comment is indicative of the misunderstanding in this country today concerning RESPONSIBILITY. People do not know or care about it, and they are certainly not teaching their kids about it. Ms. Atkins should have thought about the repercussions of her actions when she was killing all those people, which numbered around 10 individuals, including the unborn baby. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is a LOT of innocent people that were murdered, and that would make Ms. Atkins a serial killer.
If she were truly responsible and remorseful, she would give her own life for the taking of all of those innocent lives. I saw a segment on You Tube showing her bawling at one of her Parole hearings. Give me a friggin' break! Funny how, back at her trial, she LAUGHED in court, in front of her victim's families, even as she was describing their gruesome deaths! She sure ain't laughing now, is she? And she was not crying for the sorrow of her victims' families, or the terror her helpless victims felt in their last moments, was she? Hell no! She was crying for HERSELF! All these creeps ever think of is themselves.
Before you start whining about poor little punished Susan Atkins, please do two things:
1. Go look at the vicious crime scene photos on the internet. They would make any normal person want to get sick and cry simultaneously.
2. Go watch some video of Doris Tate, Sharon's mother, who spent the rest of her life dedicated to crime victims.
If you still feel for poor little Susan, well, maybe there is no hope for you either.
People should put their energies into helping the survivors and trying to prevent such heinous crimes, not crying about some remorseless killer who is oh so nice! If this creep had viciously murdered YOUR loved ones, I somehow think you would not be wanting her unleashed back on society.
She should have been released years ago? Really? She should have been executed years ago, except, unfortunately, the California Supreme Court reversed their decision on the death penalty. The death penalty was designed for multiple murderers like her. Let's bring back the firing squad!
Why have mercy for her when she did not for ones she murdered? yes she is a born again christian, because she is in prison. She would of killed more innocent people if she was not caught! I heard from some source that she was recently in a certain hospital and she was screaming "please help me". Those are the exact words she heard when murdering. So sad to say but she deserves everything she is and will go thru with this terminal illness. Compassionate? why she did not for her victims. Her death will be nothing like what her victims went thru. She is weeping what she sowed!
You know folks i've read your post's both "for" and "against", I find alot of ignorant people have access to computer's. I've seen the crime scene photo's "all of them" i've seen and heard Doris and Patti Tate through the years now there's Debra who by the way sell's mouse pads and tote bags with her dead sisters image on them "CLASSY" huh. So from where I sit this is more about revenge at this point than anything else, taking all the circumstances into account, I must try to convey to all you tough on crime sorts and throw the key away types The Constitution makes no mention of "victims rights" we all know what position the families of the victims are going to take that is a no brainer and a prosecuter you know where their coming from so let's not debate that issue society has allowed them into the process whether through pity sympathy or both, as for legality the Founding Fathers took no position on it I do believe however they were well aware of "victims" even then. The Constitution does however refer to cruel and unusual punishment. And please before all you bible thumpers jump all over this post I do believe what she participated in 40 yrs. ago was absolutly heartless. But man c'mon she's allready dead does anyone give any thought as to why we have 300 million people in this country and 3.5 million incarcerated compared to say China which has 1.3 Billion and 1.5 million incarcerated, and thats a communist country, WAKE-UP WHACKO'S your Govt. is going to put you all into foreclosure with your zero-tolerance bullcrap instead of being as merciless as the people we imprison we ought to take that energy and find a solution to this problem. Does anyone give any thought to how ironic it is that the very idividual at the center of this whole incident "Charles Manson" was a product of prisons and Govt. intervention. THINK ABOUT THAT.
To the July 2nd anonymous and others who want to show mercy for Atkins:
Susan Atkins didn't just hold down Sharon Tate while she was murdered. She also murdered FOUR other people, not counting the unborn child.
One could argue by the time she participated in the murders she was brainwashed by Manson, and Manson did use various forms of mental manipulation. However inthe decades of her incarceration she has not shown remorse for her murders or asked forgiveness form the families of those she murdered. Which is odd, because of she is the Christian she claims to be, she would have had the conscience to do that. Tate Legacy has is right IMO. And as for the claim that the image of Sharon Tate on tote bags and so forth are (in sarcasm) " classy", tell me how " classy" was Atkins in her two books, NONE of the profits going for the families of those she murdered? And how about her husband/lawyer's website extolling how great Atkins is in helping others while yesterday in an MSNBC interview he misrepresented Atkin's actual sentence?
As for the Constitution not mentioning victim's rights, that is a red herring. When the Constitution and the first ten Admendments were written, black people had no rights and women were not allowed to vote. In the past women who were raped were treated as if they were whores and children during the Industrial Revolution worked sixteen hour days at factories for pennies. Our society has grown to realize that we have more rights and legal needs than the Constitution can cover. For a long time victims of violent crime and their families were not allowed to have a voice. They were not allowed to show how the person convicted of a crime affected their lives. When a woman who was raped was depicted by the defense as a whore and a tease and so forth, she was powerless to defend herself from such an attack.
July 2nd anonymous, mutter consipracy theories all you want the fact still remains that Atkins murdered five people and has yet to show actual remorse for that. Sure she cries-- about herself. IMO Atkins should spend her last breaths behind prison walls. If she is the Christian she claims to be, she should be eager to meet her god.
As far as the " black magic" claim involving Atkins, show me proof.
It is my understanding that Susan Atkins has repeatedly asked for forgiveness for what she has done. I watched an interview with her where she continued to ask the families for their forgivness and has shown a great deal of remorse for her part in the murders. She has spent nearly 40 years paying for something that cannot be undone. Some may say its not enough. While I agree with her crimes as being excessively brutal and seemingly unforgivable she appears, on all accounts a changed woman today. I understand that she has been a model prisoner with exceptional behavior. She appears to be someone very unlike the young, very callous and unfeeling woman she was when she was convicted in 1969. I should hope that who she has become during her incarceration should speak for something.
As a Christian myself I hope that she has indeed found salvation. While we will never forget her crimes, we must learn to forgive in order to move forward. If she is at death's door then for me, I wish her the best.
FLIP SIDE
To those who believe good is good and bad is bad, I have only one comment, i.e. there is always a flip side to the coin.
A lot of you assumed Sharon Tate and all of Susan's victims are good people, and productive to the world. Have you ever realized that Sharon was one of the revolutionary actresses who pioneered into entertainments which contain full of sexual contents and dirty languages? As much as I desparately seek a way to effectively prevent my kids from being affected by such dehumanizing products, I really believe those who, because of financial motivation, imported that kind of evil into our country back in the late 60's.
Yes, Susan did kill the physical lives of many people, which was cruel and bad. But Sharon Tate did and would have killed a lot more spiritual lives of the innocent victims such as my 2 baby girls. Without Sharon's active participation in the X movies, our kids are much better protected.
I wish the best to both the Tate family and Susan. I pray that both Sharon and Susan will become friends in the Paradise one day.
So it is a good thing that Sharon Tate's life was snuffed out because she would have participates in x movies?!? HUH? Sharon Tate was about to give birth and she and that child were killed for absolutely no reason. Ms. Atkins also participated in the deaths of the other four people at the house that night, the LaBianca's the next night, and Gary Hinman, the music teacher that was killed a few months prior, and also the ranch hand, Shorty. That is a total of....10 people that we even know about. Ten people lost their lives with Susan Atkins' participation. I do not know (or care) how remorseful she is, or how changed she is, but anyone who has their hand in taking ten lives (that we know of!) should never be free among society again. Ever. Brain cancer or not.
There is a video of one of her parole hearings on YouTube. I watched it the other day. It was from the year 2000. Steven Parent's sister showed up there. He was the 18 year old kid murdered in the car in the driveway. Her testimony was heartbreaking. She had a paper, signed by Ms. Atkins, stating that she had no regrets at all in her life. I do not know where this paper came from, maybe I need to watch it again. I do not know if she is remorseful but really, should that count for anything? Anyone can cry in front of the parole board (to try to get released) but after TEN PEOPLE lost their lives, who cares about remorse? Her actions can not be undone.
As for Ms. Tate going on to be an X film actress, I believe her intent was to retire and raise kids, you know, the kids she never got to bring to life.
All lives are precious. Period. All murders are disgusting. Period. All murderers should be punished and should show remorses. Period.
Regardless physical lives or spiritual lives, they are all precious.
Let me repeat what Mr. Paul said at a hearing: "Where is the justice?"
I'm just shaking my head at some of the comments left on this blog. Example- what kind of person would infer that Sharon Tate got what she had coming because of her acting career?! Maybe it wasn't emphatically stated as such, but it was most definitely implied. Pathetic, sanctimonious garbage!
Susan Atkins- she participated in the deliberate, cruel, inhuman and brutal murders of ten people. THINK about that. So what if she supposedly found God in prison! Like we've never heard that before. Bleeding hearts of the world unite! Good for her because she's going to meet her maker very soon.
Maybe we should spend more time thinking about the victims of these brutal criminals and how their lives are forever changed. I hope no one posting about compassion for Susan Atkins ever has to walk in their shoes.
As I said on July 2nd, Debra Tate does sell mouse pads and tote bags with the image of her dead sister, you mention the fact that Susan Atkins sold two books I fail to see the connection she is by your definition an animal, who should die like an animal, What is Debra Tate then, a business woman? And please stay on topic regarding The Constitution your off on a tither about whore's, black's and red herring's, highly illogical! I believe theres such a thing as giving "victims" too much of a voice, it tips the scales, you know what those are? Thats the lady in the courthouse's around this country with the blindfold, the sword, and the scales. She is called "JUSTICE" or do you have your own private amendments for her too? I was waiting for you to tell me how civilized weve become since 1969. I think you should turn your eyes around and look at yourself every so often you may be suprised at what you see!!!!!
To the jerk spouting BS about the the US Constitution and the scales of justice, blah, blah, blah- you might convince some of us that you have some intelligence by discontinuing the use of run-on sentences. Stop the vitriol and venom just because people disagree with you.
Maybe Charles Manson could use a good word from you at his next parole hearing.
To anonymous on July 3rd thank you for the personal attack, The blah, blah ,blah part is a bit off topic and childish as for Mr. Manson's next parole date I have no interest in that event, were off topic again, and I was not ,as you put it "spouting" BS about The Constitution of The United States, it is a brilliantly written document, I suggest you read it before you danounce it! My comment was simply that Ms. Atkins was involved in some very heinous crimes four decades ago, for which she has been imprisoned since, she is now at the end of her life (so I doubt you will be running into her at your local mall, no need to be frightened) I felt as though maybe, just maybe, her family could have whats left of her. She is probably not even cognitive of her surrondings anyway. So I believe it is you doing the "SPOUTING" not I, you or anyone else may disagree with me all you like . Thanks to that "BS CONSTITUTION" you so proudly denounced, LOL. CASE CLOSED.
I think Atkins should be allowed to die at home. Her home is prison. She's been given a better home than many unfortunate poor folks. She was given that home in 1972 when she escaped her rightful death sentence. Let her die there.
I have a few questions/observations;
Ms Atkins was involved in the deaths of nine people counting baby Polanski. Let's see thirty-nine years divided by nine, equals 4.3333333 per victim. Now if one of you bleeding hearts out there lost a loved one would you consider 4.3333 years of the perpetrator's life payment enough? Let's not forget she is a mass murderer. Since when did we start letting them back out into society? For those quoting the bible give me a break. I wonder what God was thinking when he created these monsters. Where was his compassion letting them loose on the world? One of the great questions today what actually is the value of a human life? (times nine Sadie) The Supreme court showed her the only mercy and compassion she deserves when they reduced the original death sentence to life. For those who think that the taxpayers would be off the hook for her medical bills. Well let's think about that a minute, first the state of CA has been paying her medical bills for 39 years. Would her husband be carrying insurance on his convict wife too? I doubt it. So say he buys her a policy still won't work it is what the insurance calls a preexisting condition and is not covered. She should pay the ultimate price she committed the ultimate offense. I will write another letter to the new address listed above.
To ladynoel, I for one am impressed, you've shown incredible aptitude regarding your knowledge of insurance term's and the use of a calculator, As for your reasoning, I had a love one murdered on 5-4-77 he was beat to death by three drunks. Two plea-bargained their sentence down, the third did 6.5 years, Ms. Atkin's was in fact sentenced to death, however a 1972 Supreme Court ruling deemed the death penalty unconstitutional, thus, automatically commuting her sentence to LIFE WITH PAROLE, LIKE IT OR NOT. I doubt alot of you hard-core throw the key away types were even born back then---YOU SEE THEIR WAS NO LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE, HENCE SHE BECAME ELIGIBLE FOR PAROLE I BELIEVE IN 1977 THE SAME YEAR MY FAMILY MEMBER WAS MURDERED. I trust you are aware she is not going home regardless of the outcome. So this debate about "let her rot in jail and life without parole means life without parole" which was not her final sentence and disposition in this case, is really moot and symbolic, she is not leaving the hospital she's been in since march, from the accounts I have read she cant even sit-up in bed, and by the way it was the physicians who requested a compassionate release not her, I think this argument is more about society as a whole and its ability to forgive one regardless of the persons inhumane and brutal actions when the time has come! For society has exacted from her all she had to give, her whole life , not in the brutal manner she took lives, we did it in time. Unless you hard guys out there think we should have stabbed her to death, then society is really no different then her are we? Society ,as hard as this is to swallow, is not as far removed from the Manson's. Atkins's,Gacy's Bundy's etc.,etc., of the world than you think, just read some of these post, They are reflections of us all and when we inflict cruelty,as they did, on them when they dont even have a clue as to where they are because of a dibilitating disease you become somewhat like them, Dont jump on the "lets let her rot" bandwagon it sounds foolish at this point. Think for yourself, or those bandwagons you so quickly jumped on may start circling you someday, show were not like them and were not scared of them and that we have a way of dealing with murderers if they decide to take that path we can point to Atkin's and the rest of them. But to inflict cruelty at lifes end to make what point? is counter productive then the next Atkin's who comes along may be more inhuman than this one, knowing how she will be treated, as the song goes "when you aint got nothin', you got nothin' to lose" The light of infamy went out on these types long ago that chapter in history has been written and closed long ago. Its a safe bet to say none of these people will walk amoung us as free people, they lost that right when they brutally ended those lives in 1969, There are much more pressing issues of 2008 to attend to. The victims families are forever stuck in that year and that is truly sad the criminals who did this to their family members will forever own them even after their deaths society cant change that, I have moved on I'm not owned by the animals who killed my loved one, I truly believe that Nature or The Universe of Karma or Whatever has a way of balancing the scales in the end, just look at Atkin's.
Let me first say I consider people who post as "anonymous" as gutless.
Secondly about this BS about Sharon Tate about to put X-rated " smut" in America and crap like that, let me say this. Ms. Tate did ONE role, the female lead in the " Fearless Vampire Killers", which was a comedy. From what I gathered, what Ms. Tate planned was to be a stay at home mom and take care of her child(ren) As for the " porn" accusation, even in the 1960s they had porn movies, usually shown at stag parties and for military guys. And KILLING her was a GOOD thing? Oh really? (( scornful look)) Just because her politics was different from yours or you see her as a whore, does that excuse murdering her? It does not.
Susan Atkins had two books published, One, " Child of Satan, Child of God" was a bestseller in Christian and secular bookstores, and none of the profits on that book was even voluntarily donated to any of the families of those she participated in murdering. If she was truly remorseful of her participation in the murders, it would not be in things like " good behavior" while in prison.
Here's the core of all this. Atkins was at the least a contributing party to ten murders over a number of incidents. Not one person in one incident. Ten people. Repeat behavior. And for her to be let out to spend her remaining weeks outside prison walls is to lessen the value of those she murdered. As she has shown to be capable of murder, even as sick as she's SUPPOSED to be, who's to say before she dies she won't murder once last time? Or if she's released someone might kill HER. So the Tate tote bags are tacky to some. Is idolizing Manson better?
IMO she's better off dying in prison. As for forgiveness, those she killed have the choice in the afterlife.
I would like respond to the last post on several points 1) To make statements as to another person's character as "gutless" is completely off-topic, out of order and just plain ignorant, I would rather post anonymous than take some fictional stage name, as far as I understand there is no requirement to join this forum in discussion and take a bogus name. 2) Mouse pads, Tote bags and other items etc. of a murder victim for profit is a bit more than "tacky" as I was raised I think any competent person know's what that is and connecting those actions to the idolizing of Charles Manson is completely off-topic again and just downright "BIZZARE". 3) The most on topic response to your ranting and raving about Charles Manson and Gutless People and Tote bags, The "compassinate release of Susan Atkin's" which is what this forum is about Whether you like it or not she is not going to die in prison anyway it will be in a hospital, as for her action's of 40 years ago they are inexcusable and I will not attempt to justify or debate them period nor will I allow someone to engage me here about her participation in several murders directly or indirectly. As the post before your's accuratly points out this is more about society than about Susan Atkin's just what point would you like to prove? what is the purpose of holding an incognitive murderer (on paper only mind you) in a hospital accomplish? Justice? Deterence?Punishment?Revenge?Toughness? Please Explain if possible because as a reasonably rational person not caught up in the moment of mob mentallity I do not see a point in that, at this point! That make's it senseless and senseless is the action's of somebody like Ms. Atkin's Society has got everything that they are ever going to get out of her and it is time to move forward. She (Ms. Atkin's) is all done. leave her to the past her deeds will never be forgotten.
I was 7 years old at the time of the murders, and while I always have heard the name ‘Charles Manson’ and associated it with evil, I was not aware of what the crime was. I just never had an interest in him or his followers. Until a few months ago, I thought HE was the murderer of Sharon Tate.
Then the news reported that a request for a compassionate release was in the works for Susan Atkins. Never heard of her. I started reading about her and the Manson family, and the crimes.
My God, the crimes were horrific.
But equally disturbing to me is to read, as I have constantly seen on numerous blogs and discussion boards, statements that people hope she rots in hell, or that she should die as her victims did. So many have stated they believe in an eye for an eye mentality.
Israel and Palestine live with an eye for an eye mentality, as does India and Pakistan. That is why they all enjoy constant conflict and strife. Gandhi once stated, quite accurately, that an eye for an eye mentality only results in the whole world being blinded. Do we really want the mentality of places like these to be how our society is?
When people state they hope Susan Atkins rots in hell, it isn’t really any different than, “Woman I have no mercy for you.” The difference is that when she uttered that infamous, callous remark, she had been on LSD and other drugs for a number of years, and had been mentally manipulated by Charles Manson. What excuse is there for those of you making what amounts to be the same statement?
These women truly believed Manson was Jesus Christ. Personally, I don’t see how anyone could allow themselves to follow anyone to the degree that they did, but it happens all the time. Jim Jones, David Koresh, and if we want to be truthful about it – the Pope. The Mormon Prophet. Catholicism and Mormonism, to just name two of the larger regional religions, have both committed horrendous atrocities based on doctrines and teachings neither continue to hold. And we wonder how the people of those times could have supported those actions or gone along with them. As I stated once before, the one thing I am certain Marx got right is that religion is the opiate of the masses. And the religious conditioning these girls experienced was the biggest part of what put them at the crime scenes.
So, ‘woman I have no mercy for you,’ and ‘I hope Susan Atkins rots in hell,’ pretty much indicate a sick mind. Which is worse? Susan Atkins sobered up and had plenty of time and therapy to see Manson for what he was, and to break free of him. Susan Atkins is not the same person today as 37 years ago. I am not afraid of her being out. But I am afraid of society sinking to new lows. I am uneasy that so many can tell a sick, dying woman they hope she rots in hell. How very shameful….
Save me the retorts about what she did being even more shameful. Nobody is arguing that her actions weren’t. It just isn’t the point. Someone earlier, maybe on another thread, wrote that what makes America great is that despite what she did, and because of who she is now, we are a people who can be merciful to her. We should be merciful to her.
And one more thing. I’ve seen the You-tube segments of her parole board hearings…. Each time they came back and recounted the grisly nature of each of the crimes and said that because of the nature of the crimes, they were denying her parole. Isn’t it against the law to be tried twice for the same thing. She was found guilty 37 years ago and served the whole 37 years since behind bars. She is legally able to be paroled, and all of the prison officials and experts say she has been totally rehabilitated and has been a model prisoner. So IMO, each time they come back and tell her she can’t be released because of her crimes 37 years ago, it’s like they are re-trying her all over again, finding her guilty again, and keeping her in prison. This is happening because of the bandwagon mentality in regards to these women. That is the only reason. That is why she says she is a political prisoner, and she is right. I’m tired of hearing Board Members state these women have not accepted responsibility for their actions, and haven’t shown remorse. Just in the two months I’ve spent studying these women, each one has continually shown remorse and has accepted responsibility.
Why does everyone keep talking about rehabilitation? Whether she has been rehabilitated or not, she was sent to prison as punishment for her crimes. Punishment, I might add, that was first given the death penalty. Luckily for her and her cohorts, the death penalty was abolished in 1972. She was involved in the deaths of ten people, and anyone who has been involved in that meany murders (directly or indirectly) should not be paroled. Period.
Good point. What if she had found religion and become rehabilitated the week after she entered prison? Should she have been paroled then?
We are way too soft on crime I think.
My forgiveness is meaningless. She didn't murder me.
I'd have to say being someone who looks into all kinds of murders and such. That we wouldn't be reacting this way to someone who didn't get as much press. We aren't basing this on the heinous level of crime we are basing our hatred off of books and televised trials. She has been shown to be under the influence of LSD and mind influence. These women had children and they were all taken away (thank God) but this is just a very publicized case. People have walked away doing much worse. She has saved lives and found religion and either way these next few weeks she will be in pain and does it matter where she is? Most people get full pardons is such situations. Shes not going to go out and kill someone. Im not a chrisitan but I mean shes found religion and helped other inmates in their lives. Im just saying this wouldn't be such a heated denate unless she was "famous".
I'd have to say being someone who looks into all kinds of murders and such. That we wouldn't be reacting this way to someone who didn't get as much press. We aren't basing this on the heinous level of crime we are basing our hatred off of books and televised trials. She has been shown to be under the influence of LSD and mind influence. These women had children and they were all taken away (thank God) but this is just a very publicized case. People have walked away doing much worse. She has saved lives and found religion and either way these next few weeks she will be in pain and does it matter where she is? Most people get full pardons is such situations. Shes not going to go out and kill someone. Im not a chrisitan but I mean shes found religion and helped other inmates in their lives. Im just saying this wouldn't be such a heated denate unless she was "famous".
Did she show compassion to her victims? By the juries ruling she (and Charlie) should have been executed 20+ years ago. Life w/o parole means life.
All I can say is that I was a kid when this happened and I thought this country was going nuts...it was very scary to hear about what happened. Someone commented that other murderers get out in 8 years which is true, and in my opinion no murderer should get out, period.
This woman took away the lives of how many others? Those people didn't get to live out their appointed days like she did. She should consider herself lucky. She sentenced others to eternity and then got to continue living.
Sorry for all those who want to talk about God and whatever other circumstances you see fit to bring into this. But the victims didn't get to live out their lives, enjoy their children or their families, and those family members that were left behind had to go on without them. These murderers made choices to do what they did. The people they murdered didn't get to make any choices. That Parent kid I think was going on a date or something, and happened to be passing by when these animals came along.
Let the world be done with Manson and all his followers, they deserved more than what they got and cheated death all these years. What they did was such an abberation that it garnered them attention and fame (or infamy at least). Society needs to be protected from people like these. Part of that is to send a message of zero tolerance for someone who willfully does these things.
I came to this site after the news story that she had been denied. Hopefully whatever appeals are made fail as well. She is in a hospital near the prison. If she needs care that is where she should remain. If she doesn't she should go back to her cell...
I agree with the individual who said that, of all the "Manson Girls", she was probably the scariest.
If there is any one of them who deserves parole, it's Van Houten. I believe her remorse is genuine. I cannot say that for the others.
Should Atkins remain in jail? I honestly don't think it matters all that much right now, she's dead for all practical purposes anyway. All it does is give the Tate family comfort that she is there. In the end, that's probably as good a reason as any to keep her there.
Well I am glad that 90% of the post's on this forum got the results they craved, Now she will "die, "rot" or "burn in hell" as you all wished congratulations! I would just like to know one thing, when she is dead what cause or bandwagon are you all going to jump on then? I read one post that exclaimed that this will show the zero-tolerance there is for this type of crime, Sadly, They answered their own question, for we know it will happen again, and know that people who commit these crimes know what their fate will be(i.e. Ms. Atkin's) well you tell me how they will treat their victims? To bad some thought was not put on that through this whole debate. Oh well good luck I hope it is not myself or my family that runs into one these people, Oh maybe I can tell them about our zero-tolerance...... WHAT A JOKE SOME OF THESE OPINIONS WERE!
Zero tolerance is a joke? Let me tell you what a real joke is: people who get all soft and feel sorry for psychopathic murderers. I do not care if the death penalty and/or life imprisonment is a deterrant or not--IT IS A PUNISHMENT for the crime! People seem to forget that! Should we let all murderers out of prison after several years because they are now older, sick, born again, remorseful, etc.? NO!
What the heck is wrong with people? Why are you feeling sorry for this person? She made her choices, choices that ruined many lives (including her own) and many families. She said she felt nothing for what she did, she laughed at her trial (can you imagine the victims' families witnessing that?!) and because she now supposedly found religion, and is older and sick, and dying and is supposedly remorseful, dumb people start whining for her. Give me a break! There are many, many deserving people out there who need help and who deserve sympathy. This psychopath is not one of them. Frankly, if she were truly remorseful and 'born aain' she would not be so interested in her own self. She would not keep trying to get out. I think it is wonderful that people are caring and sympathetic to others, but it is downright scary when they start including someone like this in their caring. You can not fix child molesters, psycopathic murderers, etc. They are not 'normal'. We keep returning child molesters to our society and they keep on harming kids. Why are we worried about them and not our innocent children?
I do not care how 'nice' she is--she murdered ten people! That makes her a serial murderer! All of those lives can not be returned. What she did was horrible, and the only one who should really worry about forgiving her are the victims' families and her maker. Save your sympathy for people who deserve it.
Please post where she'll be buried....I'd like to know where I can relieve myself.
To the prior poster.....GOOD POST. I admire your steadfast approach to society's ill's, YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER A CAREER IN LAW ENFORCEMENT,CORRECTIONS OR MAYBE THE PAROLE BOARD! just one thing ....PLEASE STAY OUT OF THE SOCIAL SERVICE OR HUMAN RIGHTS BUSINESS! THANK YOU.
Two news articles today caught my attention today. Peter Egner, now 86 is suspected of war crimes and may lose his American citizenship. Susan Atkins again denied parole, reportedly will soon lose her life. Whether she should be released is not in our purview and is already decided. Like others I was their age, lived in the “Valley” and was shocked and saddened by the crimes.
What is within our grasp is our ability to forgive. We still hold people accountable for their actions no matter the unfortunate circumstances that are their life. We in a way share in her guilt for not caring. We walk by people every day that could use a hand but leave it up to someone, some charity or some government agency to handle. We don’t want to be involved. This is the result of our lack of involvement. We are admonished in a prayer to forgive if we want to be forgiven, no matter what the offense. We can not purge the evil out of society (people) by sitting in front of the sand of the TV with our butts in the air. If you think it’s a social problem get involved in a social program, if you think it’s a spiritual problem get involved that way but for the sake of all, get involved.
So now we are blaming Susan Atkin's heinous crimes on society? Excuse me? There are many, many people in the world who have come from very dire circumstances (I know several with unbelievable pasts) and yet, they strive to make the world a better place for themselves and others. They do not go on drug addled murder sprees, or follow some wild eyed moron who tells them what to do. society is not to blame for Susan Atkin's choices. She chose to do drugs, follow Manson and kill innocent people. And now that she is still paying for those choices, people want to feel sorry for her? Feel sorry for the crime victims who stopped having choices almost forty years ago.
i agree with sharon tates sister, iwas a small child when that god awful thing happened all i could think was please let me have my baby.i was only a small child and i would cry and hold my mom at night. all i could thinkk about was sharon and the other people that were brutally killed. and as a little girl i would think how beautiful miss tate was. as i grew older and in my 20+, iwas told i looked like sharon tate . and that was such a comlement also i remember what doris tae and her family went now i do belive they are all in heaven and doris is wiyh her grandson. because doris tae the laws have been changed and victims and familys have choices. i think sharon should have a star on the walk of fame. if i had the money i would pay for it myself.had she lived a belive the tate family might have not had all the medical problems, as all the other victims. and sharon would have or if she wanted would have been a great actress. and i would bet my life that she could have been a great mother, it is so sad my mom passed away and i feel the loss. she watched court t.v every time one of them came up for parole. she like myself is pro-tate.it was all such a waste ms. tate an animal lover a kind person and i do not wish bad or cancer on anyone. but i read as much as possible on ms. tate and susan atkins wrote a book it went ? satan child of god i did not buy it but i read all the contredions well all out lies. she should have told the truth and i heard ex husbands that married her in jail, quote her as crazy? any way a feel for ms tates one sister if iam not wrong patty ,doris, paul,all have passed. but please help get sharon tate a star on the hollywood walk of fame. i love animals pretty flowers and miss tate was not only pretty outside but inside. and i would bet my last dollar that had she lived she would not only been a great mother, but you movie stars that knew her,lost a good friend. and had she lived i think she would have been a good friend to her peers, and a good confidont it is so sad. but please some of you big stars heip get her a star.thankyou a blonde animal lover.
To the Anonymous poster above, who stated that I should stay out of social service or human rights, please let me say this: I certainly hope that YOU are not in social service or human rights!
Susan Atkins went on a vicious killing spree, butchering ten innocent people that we know of. There may even have been more. She has been a drain on society for almost 40 years. She has sat in prison, getting a place to sleep, three squares a day, free education, medical and dental care. All at tax payers expense.
Meanwhile, millions of law abiding citizens, myself included, work hard to put ourselves through school, work hard at our jobs and struggle just to make ends meet. With no medical or dental coverage at all.
I am one of the fortunate ones, as I am luckily, very healthy. But what about the people who do not enjoy good health, or worse, are struggling with the care of a sickly child?
What is wrong with a society that places the needs of a mass murderer above those of good, law abiding citizens?
I think it is wonderful that we have people who dedicate their lives to social work, usually not a very high paying line of work. However, please reserve your sympathy and hard work for citizens who deserve it. Not mass murderers.
This murderer and her cohorts should have been executed a long time ago, saving tax payers loads of money. The California Supreme Court really messed up in 1972. Maybe the death penalty should only be reserved for mass murderers. I understand that people want to be forgiving, kind, etc., but it does not work with psycopaths like this. She has whined for years about wanting out, that she is a political prisoner, etc. A political prisoner? You kill ten people and then you think you are unfairly being imprisoned? And yet, people say she is remorseful? That does not sound very remorseful to me.
I do not know what the answer to criminals should be. But I do know that something is dreadfully wrong when a person can go out and viciously take many lives, and end up living better than law abiding people, and then gathering lots of sympathy as well.
I don't believe in Karma, poetic justice, meeting one's maker, or any of that. I believe in life. I was 22 when these murders took place. Later I read Bugliosi's book. Romans 6:23...the wages sin pays is death... Susan is getting paid her just wages. With this scripture, the Father has already judged her and all other sinners so there's no need to meet them individually. That's good enough for me. I just wish it could make other young people think, even though I know it will not not. Sitting in prison from age 18 or so for the rest of one's life is the absolute worst that could happen and waste of time and youth. But, they had a choice just like everyone else and they chose unwisely. Death is better for her.
if you cant do the time dont do the crime
While I feel great sympathy for the family and friends of Susan Atkins, and I know she must be in great pain, I feel she does not deserve to be released from prison. She committed a horrible crime, stealing the lives from so many innocent people; including an unborn baby. Sharon Tate begged Atkins to allow her to live another two weeks so she could have her son. Afterwards, she said, Atkins could kill her.
Atkins has been allowed to live almost four decades since the murders and, in my opinion, that is a terrible and heinous slap in the face to the victims and their families. It was bad enough that her sentence was reduced to life in prison with possibility of parole, but now we should release her because she is dying? Sharon Tate suffered and died by Atkins' hand. That woman and showed no mercy. Why should the justice system show her compassion?
Susan Atkins will die a more humane death than those she killed. I sincerely hope she is ready to stand before the Almighty.
For all you rebel rouser's who speak of justice and "rotting in hell" and "having a painful death" for Susan Atkin's etc., I just have two words for all of you Linda Kasabian she made the biggest fool out of Justice ,out of California, and out of all you yee haws out there. If she was so horrified on Aug 9, 1969 because of what she witnessed, Then why did she go and knock on the door of the Labianca's the following night? Oh the D.A. alleges it was cause she had a license, Please if you believe that then I would like to to sell you some stock's and bond's, Not only did she make a fool out of everyone and has had 40yrs of freedom,The D.A. of the State of California made a fool of everyone! Any rebuttal's?
I feel TERRIBLE for poor Susan. She had an amputation is paralyzed G-d KNOWS what her mental status is like. Maybe she should have been "banished from the Kingdom" to some little Green Hell Island. She could always go to Paris or Rome incognito. The Manson MEN were Evil but she has redeemed herself. I wish I had written to her when she was well.
Oh and Leno LaBianco was NOT a legitmate businessmen. He was dealing and Tate was using. The "acid head psychopath" theory of Bugliosi does NOT hold water. Like Oswald shooting straight down at a moving car. I pray for a remission. I wish I could make her whole again. I can see why the lawyer fell in love with and married her
Hey Ahhnode better let her out. California has forests that burn.
hypothetically speaking of course
Some of you people are nuts! So LaBianca was a dishonest businessman and Tate was a drug user? Whether that is true or not does not matter! These people were viciously murdered in their own homes and morons like you think it is ok?!? What the hell is wrong with you? I think you are insane, therefore, it should be ok if I send a bunch of drug crazed, wild eyed loonies to your house to viciously kill you and write 'nutcase' in blood on your door?
I have to correct two incredibly offensive and incorrect comments made by a poster.
1st. There is no proof that Leno Labianca was anything other than a legitimate business owner. Though as another poster said it wouldn't matter if he were. He did not deserve being murdered by Atkins' friends.
And secondly and most importantly Sharon Tate was NOT "using".
She was eight and a half months pregnant.
She had been in europe until a few weeks prior to the killer atkins entering he home and killing her, and there were NO DRUGS found in her system during her autopsy.
I have to correct two incredibly offensive and incorrect comments made by a poster.
First, there is no proof that Leno Labianca was anything other than a legitimate business owner. Though as another poster said it wouldn't matter if he were. He did not deserve to be murdered by Atkins' friends.
And secondly and most importantly Sharon Tate was NOT "using".
She was eight and a half months pregnant.
She had been in europe until a few weeks prior to her murder.
There were NO DRUGS found in her system during her autopsy.
Sharon Tate was not a drug user. She was a beautiful, healthy woman about to have a baby when she was murdered by low lives and rejects of society - cult memebers who feel their way is better than the norm. Sharon Tate was a model in society and deserves respect as do the other victims of Manson.
Well said. It is bad enough that all of these innocent people were so brutally killed, for no reason at all, but then, years later, people want to insult their memories and idolize the Manson gang. Very sad.
I am old enough to remember the trials of these people, and because it was so shocking, I never lost interest and read everything I could about the case and the people involved.
None of the victims (and I include those not mentioned in these trials or murdered solely by these particular family members,) deserved to be murdered.
The victims did not someonw "bring this on themselves" by some action of their own that caused them to be murdered.
Every one of us has probably had a drink, or taken a pill or pilfered something in our lives, that is not justification for madmen to break into our homes and butcher us with knives.
These people and these killings were--and are--so horrifying largely because they were committed for no discernible motive. Just some psychotic fantasy of a cult leader.
I do believe in God's mercy, and what He chooses to do once these people leave this life is entirely up to Him, forgiveness then is God's business. But for now, I believe we are also bound to set and carry out a fair consequence for their actions, not becaue we have no mercy, but because we do--we have mercy on all the people that these people woulld harm if we did not keep them incarcerated.
Susan may not be able to kill anyone at this time, it's true, but her release from prison would irreperably harm the familys of her victims. It would harm all of us who remember the fear we experienced when the original crime happened.
I can pray she finds peace--and I do--I cannot believe it would be right to release her from prison
I support Susan's bid for freedom! I do! I really, really do! I will shout and yell and scream for her release the very minute that Sharon Tate crawls from her cold, dark grave, gives birth to her son, and is reunited with her Roman and her family. This I faithfully promise.
While I sympathize deeply with victims of crimes and their families, the portrayals of Susan Atkins as a murderous psychopath doesn't bear much resemblance to the kind of person I hear Susan is today. So why should a few bitter people be allowed to control tax dollars to curtail the freedom of someone who no longer poses a danger to anyone when those dollars could be spent on those who are sick and dying for lack of funds for medical care? If those were your dollars and you needed medical attention what would you do? Mrs. Tate, I'm sorry your sister is dead but all the jail time in the world won't bring her back, so could you please quit tying up tax dollars that are best spent on the living? It's harder to count the bodies of those who would otherwise still be with us but that doesn't mean they're not out there.
Hey MurrayMD...if you truly sympathize with the victims families you would understand that there really shouldn't be any limitations to the penalties involved with such heinous crimes as those that Susan Atkins took part in. I don't care if it happened 100 years ago and she's not the same person...well, who the HELL is the same person we were 40 years ago??? And if you took the time to read some of the previous posts, you would see there's quite a few more than a "few bitter people" outraged by the possibility of her parole. Oh, I get your point now..tax dollars before the pain and suffering of families torn apart by this tragedy. Yes, lets spend tax dollas on the living..like all the f*ck ups in prisons by giving them food, shelter, health care and an education...You're an idiot plain and simple.
Ok, so she's found forgiveness in the Lord...great! Everyone should, that's what God encourages. But the fact remains, on THIS plane, this being earth, humans are not so easy to forgive. We naturally cannot posess the forgiveness that God poesses, that's why he's God and there is only 1 God. God forgives ALL sins, so if she's true to her word than she has nothing to fear. With Humans on the other hand she will always be known as a monster and nothing less. Period. Once you murder, you are a murdered for life. You are stuck with that title. It doesn't matter what you've done to try and correct it, you'll still always be known as a murderer. Think before you act.
I wonder if any of these people who post on here with their blatant sympathy for this killer has ever seen the crime scene photos? The vicious slaughter that is portrayed in those photos is absolutely horrible! Who cares if she has changed or not? I don't think any of those monsters are truly sorry for what they did. they are incapable of true regret--they are psychopaths. And not one of them should ever see freedom in this lifetime. Ever.
I wish Susan Atkins as well as ALL other Manson Family members old & new especially that diciple of death Sandra Goode would just die already and give thier victims loved ones alittle closure if not alittle peice.
True! I never want to wish someone would expire, but all of those 'things' are a scary bunch. Especially that 'Disciple of Death' (good one!) as you call her, Sandra Good. And that nutjob is out loose among the rest of us! How anyone can sympathize with this bunch or admire them is beyond me. I guess a lot of people still do not understand the difference between right and wrong.
It never ceases to astonish me how spiteful and vindictive people are. We are not animals. we are supposed to be human beings. When I read the kind of comments and opinion that the majority of the posters have made, I feel like I must be from some other planet. Maybe a flying saucer came down and left me on a doorstep.
These girls and boys of the "family" were mere children when they came under the power of Charles Manson, a cunning and insane psychopath. It happened at a time of great social unrest and change. Kids of the same age as Manson's were being slaughtered daily in the jungles of Vietnam. At home the college campuses became hotbeds of protest and activism. An entire generation was vehemently rebelling against what they perceived as the narrow minded and outdated mores of their predecessors.
Susan was just another vulnerable kid who became brainwashed by an insidious criminal mind. She and her friends were swept up in an orgy of sex and drugs and a lifestyle of freedom from all normal authority. They were systematically programmed to do the bidding of Mr. Manson who created his own version of society. The level of control he exerted over the girls was such that they were no longer free agents but rather extensions of his personality. One only needs to witness the courtroom hijinks to realize how complete there befuddlement was and how reluctant they were to admit the hoodwinking.
I cannot fathom how Bugliosi managed to convince a jury that, even though Manson programmed the girls to do his bidding and was therefore guilty himself, that the girls were also equally guilty for their inability to resist his commands. Vinnie claimed that it showed a predisposition to this kind of behavior without which they would not have done the deed. That's quite an insight. I think the old Bugmeister missed his real calling.
I don't see any difference in the type of programming Manson accomplished to the type of programming one gets in the military. Don't they take impressionable kids out of high school and mold them into cold blooded killers also? I guess they must also have the same predisposition to violence, otherwise we would have no soldiers.
Justice was not served in this case. Manson shouldn't be in prison. He is insane and should be in a padded room and straight jacket. The girls should have been institutionalized also until they came to their senses as they all did in prison and then released. Manson did not only steal the lives of those that perished. He stole the lives of those he sentenced to a living nightmare that has been ongoing for forty years.
"I don't see any difference in the type of programming Manson accomplished to the type of programming one gets in the military. Don't they take impressionable kids out of high school and mold them into cold blooded killers also? I guess they must also have the same predisposition to violence, otherwise we would have no soldiers."
Are you for real??????? I thought most people enlist of their own free (you remember the word FREE, it's what our forefathers fought for) will. So you're under the misguided thinking that all soldiers are nothing but cold-blooded killers???? HOW DARE YOU!!!!! My relatives fought and died in WWII for the life you live today and the right to spew your ridiculous rantings....HOW DARE YOU!!! I guess it's a small wonder all the vets don't return home after their tour of duty and kill everyone they come home to..
remember the're all just cold-blooded killers....HOW DARE YOU!!!
Everyone keeps blaming Charlie, drugs, etc...PLEASE!!!!! How stoned could they have been?? they knew enough to drive to a pre-determined place, had the strength to brutally murder 9 people over the course of several days, while what? CONTINUOUSLY BEING IN A STATE OF NOT KNOWING WHAT THEY WERE DOING?????????COME ON!!!!!!
AGAIN I ASK HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!
I guess you don't see a lot of what "normal" people conceive as taking responsibility for your actions. Those "mere children" were teen-agers not 5 year olds who are still impressionable.
Maybe you should provide a "safe house" for these lunatics in your own home you bleeding hearted moron. Please feel free to reprogram them all and maybe we'll elect you the next president.....of idiots.
I agree with one thing you said..."we are not animals, we are human beings" Take a good look at the crime scene photos and tell me what arrived at those poor people's homes those nights...humans or animals????
Thanks for the outrage. You proved my point better than I ever could have.
Regarding the rhetoric, I don't respond to personal insults, and I am not affected by them either. So froth away to your heart's content.
Apparently you feel that murder is just and appropriate as long as it serves the purposes of and is sanctioned by the "state". For that kind of narrow minded herd mentality I can only offer my deepest pity.
when some terrorist comes knocking at your door strapped with explosives..please don't look for any pity or suport from your military...no sense killing someone for you, just lay down and die. We'll make sure you're remembered as a martyr for all us misguided souls.
"Look at the crime scene photos."
Yes. How can anyone look at those horrible photos and feel ANYTHING for the monstrous killers? Bugliosi is exactly right--very few could do such horrible acts. There is definitely something in those people (psycopath properties, ya think?) that let them do that, and different degrees of it. Kasabian was horrified (but apparently not enough to try and stop it or go get help) and LVH was hesitant. But look at the others, they went full bore ahead! And then they all laughed about it in front of the tv.
"They were mere children."
Are you freakin' kidding me?!? The youngest was what, 19? That is a child? They were in their 20's, and Manson was in his mid 30's!
As for your comments about the soldiers/military, you remind me of a Jehovah's Witness I used to work for. She told me how the JWs would never, ever be in the military, or be a cop, sheriff, judge, anything like that. But, (and here is where I have a problem with them) they sure have no problem at all calling on the police, etc. when THEY need help, and they enjoy their freedom because of the military....that is not right.
Stop whining about the evil killers and think of the horror those innocent people endured, the death of that baby and the agony the survivors had to deal with.
For anyone who believes that Charles Manson alone is responsible for Susan's actions I suggest you read the book "Female Serial Killers". The following facts from the book reveal that: "Susan Atkins was 21 (an adult not a child) at the time of the murders and perhaps the most viciouos. After chasing down one of the escaping victims and cutting him down she returned to the house to stab to death the 8 1/2 months pregnant Sharon Tate."
She grew up a religious girl, sang in the church choir and was a girl scout. Atkins herself said "I didn't like my mother. She tried to get along with me, but I refused to get along with her".
In 1963 when Susan was 15 her mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. About her mother's death relatives recall "Susan had an almost indifferent air about it". After her mother's death Susan began to run wild. A friend stated that "she just didn't seem to care. Like when her mother died, she didn't show any sadness about it. There was something wrong with her".
"Atkins left home when she was 18. She held a few menial jobs, but mostly turned to crime. She was arrested for car theft and put on probation. She committed a number of petty crimes and frequented the company of armed robbers. In San Francisco she danced topless and lived in a communal house. She also got into satanism."
All of this happening BEFORE her meeting Charles Manson. So again do you see a sick history PRIOR to meeting Charles Manson??? still believe all of this alone is Charlie's fault?????
At what point should a "normal" person upon her full rehabilitation and acceptance of her crimes beg to be smothered with a pillow because they couldn't face another day nor deserve to live another day when they realize all that they have done?????????
A piece of Susan Atkins is already out of jail (right or left leg, I don't knovv) so she might be happy!
The older I get, the more I believe some people are just no damn good.
oh, yes lets DO paint Susan the victim....NOT!!!!!!!!!! How can ANYONE shift the blame or even think about what she's gone through??? Why not consider the REAL victims here...HELLO, ANYONE LISTENING?? what's wrong with some of you? I'm willing to bet most of the people who post here and speak of forgive and forget have, in their own life, cut off friends or family who pissed them off at one time or another for much more petty reasons. I guess if it's not happeneded to you, you have no right to tell others how to feel concerning this.
Die you worthless excuse for a human
she deserves compassion??? She and her fellow bitches deserved the death penalty...case closed. MOST of America should spit in their collective faces. I wonder if they realize how despised they are by so many.....for that alone none should be expected to be released, EVER!!!!
she deserves compassion??? She and her fellow bitches deserved the death penalty...case closed. MOST of America should spit in their collective faces. I wonder if they realize how despised they are by so many.....for that alone none should be expected to be released, EVER!!!!
Jehovah's Witness???
Hoo hoo hoo, that's a real side-splitter. I'm an atheist, I couldn't possibly be any further removed from a bible thumping jw. (great insight there:-)
I would not expect, after forty years of imprisonment, that Susan gives much thought about people that don't like her. The important thing is to be secure and at peace with yourself. You can't live your life based on the expectations of others.
So somebody wrote a book? B.F.D. Any fool with a grade school education and a computer can produce books. Doesn't mean a thing.
Interesting how people think they are experts and know exactly what happened and how it happened. Unless you were there at the time, you don't really know anything. Your "knowledge" doesn't amount to anything more than gossip.
I could go on, but this should be sufficient to get you all riled up again. I hate to see such an amusing discussion splutter out because of lack of interest.
- The Pot stirrer
oh, so I suppose you WERE there? just like any fool can write a book so can any fool such as yourself present their case. What are you? her BBF, lesbian lover or husband?
I'm so glad to hear you are an atheist...maybe you and Susan can discuss morals in the afterlife. But then again that wouldn't happen because she's supposedly found God. Your case is also filled with nothing more than assumptions, pot stirrer you've presented no "facts". BTW the book is based on interviews with Susan and her family. What more do you need? I guess someone like you who knows eveything can't be convinced otherwise. Your obviously in the minority here on your views. I guess your "knowledge" amounts to nothing as well.
"The important thing is to be secure and at peace with yourself. You can't live your life based on the expectations of others."
BFD!! Sounds like a closeted lesbian who came out, only to be humiliated and disowned by her family to me. Did your Dad not love you? or was it the atheist thing that sickened him? You must have been such a huge dissapointment with your ivy league "edukashun" and all!!!See I can make assumptions and generalizations too!!!! what fun!!!
"I would not expect, after forty years of imprisonment, that Susan gives much thought about people that don't like her."...yeah, THAT'S normal...think back to all the sickos the world has seen. Does any one forget them? so Hitler killed millions. Well no-one remembers him for his fashion sense do they? If you believe that Susan doesn't much care what anyone thinks then she really has never grasped the severity of what she's done. Pat Krenwinkle says she's deserves no compassion and that nothing they did was "right" or "justified". Her words not mine, from an interview on Biography. At least she's slightly better off in her thinking. She doesn't forget she's a "destroyer of life". She thinks that every day....good for her. I'm gald she realizes the magnitude of what she's done. With that in mind how can anyone not realize how the world must view them or care? Part of accepting what you've done would or should include not being worthy of release. Well she's not going anywhere anyway so your case in her defense is falling on deaf ears.
I have no pity for Susan or any of her "family"! I think it is so horrible that Tex Watson was allowed to father 4 children. I at my last understanding, heard he got divorced. How could anyone grow up knowing they were the child of a murderer? Who paid to raise those 4 children of his. I wish Susan and the other Manson "family" members would have gotten the dealth sentence that was originally handed to them. They could have held hands and sung together in the electric chair. The disrespect they showed the world, the criminal justice system.....soooo shameful. They laughed and sung. Yea, I am not perfect, especially when I was 21, but I would have never "considered" murder! OMG, how we have paid sooooooo much money all these years to house, feed, clothes, these horrible murderers! When, their are homeless people, who have not committed any crimes, that do not have enough to eat or a roof over their heads. The death penalty is not a chance to repent, it is a punishment and should be looked upon as just that. I ask anybody, if any member of your "family", meaning close friend in addition to your real "family" was murdered in such a way, could you really not feel spiteful towards them? I bet even if you say "yes", it would be really MUCH different if it happened to you. I don't think she, Susan, should get released. I don't care if she is sick and dying. She has taken, taken, taken, all of her life, and there is no way for her to make amends. She WAS old enough to know better. By God, even little kids in kindergarten know "life is Sacred", and thou shall not kill! duh................
First off I said you remind of a JW. I never said I assumed you were one. Please get your facts straight. For someone with such an obviously high (?) IQ I'm surprised at you.
HEY EVERYONE!!! throw away all the books about anything you've ever read...acording to "reliable" sources none of them mean a thing!!!!they were most likely written by some fools with a grade school education and computer!!! tell all your friends and kids in school!!
unless the person who wrote it was there when it happened (even then, they could be pathological liars :^)) it doesn't count because I said so. If you don't like it too bad. It's MY sandbox and if you don't like it, go play somewhere else....again, I say it and it is so...WAAAAHHHH!!!!!
When Diane Sawyer interviewed Manson, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Leslie Van Houton in 1994 - Leslie Van Houten (to my mind) was the one who put on the best show of "rehabilitation".
Obviously, Manson is a lunatic, he jibbered at Diane about God and the DA and Satan, and "his girls" and how he "never told them to do nothing", he said something about how good Diane Sawyer smelled, he was sniffing her ... He's insane.
Susan Atkins (who is now a born-again Christian, and also says that she wants to be considered a "political prisoner" - what a freak) refused to be interviewed. Here is what haunts me about Susan Atkins. While she was on the stand, she was shown the photo of the dead Steven Parent in his car - whom she had seen on her way out of the Tate house, after killing everyone inside. She said, "Yes. That is the thing I saw in the car." To her, human beings were "things".
Patricia Krenwinkel (who, you will remember, stabbed Abigail Folger something like 70 times?? Okay? Imagine doing that. Imagine. The cops who found Folger thought that she was wearing a red dress.) Judging from the interview with Sawyer, Krenwinkel, to my untrained eye, has realized the horror of what she has done. She is a woman whose soul writhes in torment. She has a look on her face of realization - she REALIZES what she did. I'm not saying she should be set free, or shown any mercy. I think she should be locked up forever, all I am saying is - in comparison to what I perceived in Leslie Van Houten - Krenwinkel is a woman who can FEEL the flames of hell licking at her heels. She will never be forgiven, she knows that. She can never forgive herself. As she shouldn't.
But Van Houten, who looked like a cheerleader at the time of the murders - and was quite gorgeous, actually - like a pin-up - was very calm in the interview, very sensitive, very understanding: "Of course the Tate family hate me ... I can completely understand that ..." she said all the right things, everything that we (and her next parole board) would want to hear. "I think about Mrs. LaBianca every day ... I think of Sharon Tate's baby ... I beg their forgiveness..." But she said all of this with absolutely dry eyes. It rang hollow for me. Not that tears mean anything. I wouldn't shed a tear of sympathy for Leslie Van Houten - that's not what I'm saying - and Krenwinkel's tears could be crocodile tears - I'm not really interested in debating that. I'm just giving you my impression. Leslie Van Houten SCARED me. Much more than Krenwinkel frightened me, although she scared me as well. There was something MISSING in Leslie Van Houten. A lack of ... something. Patricia Krenwinkel, while most definitely a monster, who did monstrous things, has woken up to what she did, and literally will not have a moment's rest until the day she dies. Good. It's just punishment for what she did. If you see a picture of Patricia Krenwinkle now, you can SEE the horror there. Etched in deep lines across her face. Van Houten is still cool, still beautiful ... she looks like an aging Julianne Moore. But I got the feeling, watching her interview with Diane Sawyer: This woman, although now elderly, is STILL a threat to society. If she got out of prison, and met some compelling Jim Jones-type who appealed to her on some level, who made her feel beautiful, special, she would follow him to the ends of the earth. She would do ANYTHING for him. There is something missing in this woman, there is no real understanding of what she did.
She said to Diane Sawyer at one point, "You weren't there. You don't know how magnetic Manson was. You can't say that you wouldn't have done just what I did." And Diane Sawyer said, "Yes, I can Leslie. I could not plunge a knife into someone. I could not do it." Van Houten shook her head knowingly, "You don't know - unless you were there, you don't know." Uh - that's not quite true, Miss Leslie. Some of us have what is known as a moral compass, which keeps us from crossing certain lines. You do NOT have that moral compass. I know it's hard for you to understand, then, those of us that do - but trust me: there ARE people on this planet who could resist Charles Manson's overwhelming charms. (First of all ... huh?? Charms?)
Van Houten reminded me of the monstrous Cathy from Steinbeck's East of Eden. The one who was born bad. Born missing whatever it is that makes us human.
I don't really believe that - that certain people are born BAD - I think it's a mix of nature and nurture - but I also think Steinbeck was really onto something when he created Cathy. She freaking terrified me when I read that book in high school - it scared me to think of a person who had no sense of good or bad, people who stood in her way had to be removed - even if they were her parents. She was evil. Steinbeck uses that term very specifically. I do believe in evil. But in people being born evil? Perhaps there are certain people who are born lacking certain things. Like humanity. Like compassion for others. Maybe it's more of a mixture of environment and body chemistry. As infants, we all have the possibility of adding light to the world, as opposed to adding darkness. I don't believe in bad seeds. Maybe some people have more of a predilection for violence than others, but it is only when that predilection is also paired with a terrible home life, or a violent upbringing - that a Leslie Van Houten can occur. But I just don't know.
In talking about all of this, and in trying to understand Leslie Van Houten, I am not forgetting what she did. I do not think she should ever be granted parole, whether she is "rehabilitated" or not. She gave up her chance to live in this society when she did what she did. Sorry. You blew it.
And a lot of people's knee-jerk reactions to questions like this is: WHO CARES? SHE'S EVIL - who cares WHY? Well, I think the "why" part is where the conversation begins. This is the side of me fascinated with human psychology, with aberrations in human development ... I will forever be interested in the question: what is it that makes a Susan Atkins or Leslie Van Houten?
Was she right when she said to Diane Sawyer: "You don't know. Unless you had been there, you don't know what you would do."
I'm with Diane, instinctively. I resist the interpretation that we ALL are capable of EVERYTHING. Unless you were THERE, you can't say what what you would and wouldn't do. I don't buy that. But I do question it, and wonder about it. I'm not CERTAIN about it. What IS the self? Is the self a changeable thing? Can it be imprinted upon? Brainwashed? What is that? What is the self? Can your "real" self vanish, and can it be replaced with someone else's idea (Manson, Jim Jones, Koresh) of the self? Or ... is it different for different people?
Is it upbringing? Circumstance? Brain-wiring?
Standing in defiance of all of Leslie Van Houten's cool and reasonable explanations ("How do you know what you would do? You could have been me!") is hippie-girl Linda Kasabian, who became the primary witness for the prosecution. She was a member of the Manson family. She sat in the car during the murders in the Tate house. She was supposed to be a member of the murder-squad, but at the last minute she said, "No. I can't do it." When she was on the stand, she looked right at Charlie Manson and said, "I'm not like you, Charlie. I couldn't kill anybody."
Linda Kasabian, a messed-up kid no doubt, still had that moral compass operating. In the end, when push came to shove, she knew what she could and couldn't do. She was not swept away by the brainwashing (at least not to the point where she could savagely murder people). In the end, there was a core in her - an indelible line: Over this line, I must never cross.
Are some people just born without that line?
I know that Sharon Tate's family (her sister, primarily) show up at all these parole hearings, and hold up the gruesome murder photos throughout the entire proceeding. As reminders. Of what these now "sweet little old ladies" did.
Good. It should never be forgotten. These women are beyond the pale. It doesn't matter how long it has been since 1969, or how old they are now, or how repentant they seem.
Think of the victims. Think of all the victims - born and not-yet-born. What could they have been? What could they have accomplished? Who might they have become?
Throw away the key.
Anonymous 11:32 -
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for those who say, no mercy for susan, or let her rot in hell, you have something in common with her. you feel as she felt, that your hate and evil judgement of others has justification. she is in prison for punishment... has it been enough? probably not, is death enough? no, we all pay that price weather we are saints or murders. Our Makers judgement is perfect. He does'nt need my opinion or yours to do His work. Just try to remember that we all will be judged on our own good deeds as well as our hateful and unmerciful thoughts.
The state has already decided she will not be released. I agree, she should not die a free person.
It seems that many people commenting here desire vengeance. Obviously, they are quite affected by media sensationalism. This case, going on 40 years, was a huge event in ours, & the world's mass media. Yes, it was horrible & sick beyond belief, but are you people unable to see that atrocities are happening every single day? Soldiers who served in Iraq & don't want to go back there have described in detail some of the evil deeds that they have committed while on duty. They will be left unaccountable though, since they were serving the corporations who are greatly profiting from this assault on an almost defenceless country. Most of you seem to think that only the lowest of the low kind of people could do these "unforgivable" crimes of ritualistic murder. I believe you are not very well read & that you don't listen to what people in regular communities say in their fits of anger. Look at Israel & other countries in the Middle East. Look right here at home in the US of A. Does anybody here know about the corporate funded research that is still happening in regards to "Mind-Control"? Have you read the history about & who were involved in the creation of LSD? -- Did any of YOU lose a close relative (who was outstandingly patriotic during the 1960s), working for the government, & after using LSD regularly, under order, mysteriously killed himself? -- The Manson puppets are locked up, most anyway, & whether or not they ever get released is not the real issue. Think about how much control is over your own lives by the powers that be. Mindless Republicans, Libertarians, & even Democrats can go ahead & call it the "Government" & rant about how it's the damn liberals that have caused every problem that's ever been. But, it's much deeper than that. Governments are owned & operated by the "Haves". These people are above the millionaires & billionaires, though they are often members of the latter, & the former. They are above and beyond money. Many of them are the creators of the system of Money, which is a great tool used to control the commoners with. It is sad that these murderers of Tate & others were led to commit these crimes. But, I can say from my own experiences, that if you, or anyone, church going or not, highly respected by all who know you, were to fall or be pushed into a particular situation that presently you would consider ungodly; you could very well be capable of committing acts that are unthinkable. How improbable is the impossible? There but by the grace of God go I.
After reading all this rhetoric about the Manson people, it all boils down to just one thing!! Either you are - or or not - capable of doing the things that Manson ordered. I too was a crazy 17 year old doing drugs and involved in the hippie culture. But, no one would have been able to get me to stab or shoot or strangle anyone. This was done of their own volition. Period!! I would never want any one of them to be MY neighbor. They are scary. Keep them in jail, in the prison hospital, whereever, just keep them away from society. Think about having Susan or Leslie living next door to you. I would never be able to sleep. These are not just demure, soft spoken little fluffers. They are dangerous women.
If Jesus forgave Dimas, who are we not to forgive? The are so many people whose sins were forgiven as written in the Holy Scriptures. I believe that we should forgive the sins of our brothers and sisters in Christ. We are not God not to judge, only God can judge. We are only a creation of God, therefore, let God be the judge.
Hello from the UK, just doing some research on Atkins and found this website.
All these bloggers pontificating about whether or not she has found God, about whether or not she was responsible for her actions!? WTF!!! Is America going soft?
Atkins was given weeks to live and that was last summer. Why do animals like her cling on to life when they denied it to others. Just die Atkins, it's long past due. Maybe she is now really suffering great physical pain as she approaches her final days. She won't be suffering emotional pain or guilt, she is not capable of that.
Hopefully she and Manson and the rest of the "family" who are still alive will get the f**k off this planet very soon now.
Pete
In my humble opinion, they should let her @$$ rot in jail. She showed no mercy to those she murdered and to my knowledge has not shown remorse. Karma.
Well, maybe all that stuff about her having "weeks to live" last summer had something to do with her trying to get out of prison? Seems now, as she is still alive, that she perhaps had a lot more than "weeks" to live.
Asserting that people who have "no mercy" for Ms. Atkins are "no better than her", as a number of posters have done, makes no sense to me. Is is really fair to compare this view coming from, say, Sharon Tate's mother, with Ms. Atkins's words? Ms. Atkins murdered people in cold blood. She is almost certainly a sociopath. Having "no mercy" for her, in light of that, and in light of her actions, is completely different from Ms. Atkins' having no mercy for a pregnant 26 year old woman she didn't even know, pleading for her life, and then stabbing her to death and walking away from her dead body while listening to her baby die inside of her (read "Helter Skelter" - this is what she did). It's ghastly, evil and unforgivable.
I search my soul and I know, in my heart, that if Sharon Tate were my daughter, I would have no, no, no, NO MERCY for this woman. That poor baby. Blame society, the prison system, or whoever/whatever you want, but the right result, the just and fair result, is for Susan Atkins to die in prison. That's what "life in prison" means. She's lucky that she wasn't executed in 1970.
To Anonymous January 13, 2009 1:57 PM.
I agree with everything you said, absolutely, but you said it more eloquently than I did.
Thank you.
Pete (UK)
I think she need some help in the last days of her life.
Let also her right leg join her family..
get over it. she's going to be dead soon, and obviously if there is a god, she will meet her fate. this state is already financially in the toilet. save us some money and send her out to die. It's not like she is strong enough to do anything to anyone, or has the legs to run away if she did. you folks sound so vengeful. we don't have to be that way - let it go, save the state some money and let the gods/karma take care of her.
Get over it? Have you ever had to "get over" losing a child? Are you in any position to tell others how to feel concerning this? what great loss have you suffered in your life?
She'll be dead soon? she was susposed to be at deaths' door last May and she's still here...maybe she'll be around for longer than expected maybe that's all part of her punishment...
Yes, why not let all the screw-ups and child molesters and killers out of jail???? why have jails at all??? we'll all just let everyone run riot and let the Gods/karma take care of everything....sheer genius!!! Her prison term, and everyone else's for that matter, came with no stipulations that if you become sick your sentence is suspended and you go free...it is not based on your health. The quality of your health has NOTHING to do with your punishment...
Karma, huh? tell me what karma came around to those innocent people who were slaughtered nearly 40 years ago? what were they being paid back for? Keep her in jail were she belongs. If your fed up with footing the bill (although divided up by the millions of residents of California I don't see how much it is actually costing you personally), write a letter to your local government and tell them to not proved such expensive care to murderers who don't deserve it.
She will pay for her crimes here and now and long after she's gone....
I keep things simple. She did the crime and she needs to do the time.I do not care if Manson or Son Of Sam's dog tells me to kill someone, I have to be accountable for my actions.Is this an unknown concept?
Tate was a satanist,an underground porn star,all her movies were about evil, she was having sex in Rome with another actor while pregnant,(They make her out to be some sort of saint)while Polanski was in the UK.Polanski was having sex with Sinarta's wife while filming.She was drug head, she allowed her hubby Polanski to have underage kids at their sex/drug parties.They filmed the sex orgies.He rapes kids. La Biancas also drug peddlers and he owed the mob for his bad debts. All the victims, peddled drugs and sex, the murderers, did the same, just they had a deeper evil that manifested into blood baths. All parties were ,and will always be trash and the costs to all of usare still costing generations,and making news for 40 years.Some one open the gates of hell back up for all them!
This crime happened before I was born, but I watched the movie and read the book. I feel for the crime they did her sentence was just: DEATH. She took lives that she did not have the right to take. Luckily for her, her sentence was commuted to life but parole should not have been included. She has had a long time to reflect on what she has done and come to some terms with it. I am personally glad she was not paroled. Now when she dies a more humane death than some who are not in prison she will really come to terms with what she has done.
This crime happened before I was born, but I watched the movie and read the book. I feel for the crime they did her sentence was just: DEATH. She took lives that she did not have the right to take. Luckily for her, her sentence was commuted to life but parole should not have been included. She has had a long time to reflect on what she has done and come to some terms with it. I am personally glad she was not paroled. Now when she dies a more humane death than some who are not in prison she will really come to terms with what she has done.
This crime happened before I was born, but I watched the movie and read the book. I feel for the crime they did her sentence was just: DEATH. She took lives that she did not have the right to take. Luckily for her, her sentence was commuted to life but parole should not have been included. She has had a long time to reflect on what she has done and come to some terms with it. I am personally glad she was not paroled. Now when she dies a more humane death than some who are not in prison she will really come to terms with what she has done.
I will be so glad to read that Susan Atkins is dead. She has no remorse, no matter what she says. She can't be trusted. She has been diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder which means she has no conscience and can do anything without feeling guilt. So goodbye Sadie, and rot in hell.
The amount of hatred in your hearts is unfathomable...it is equal to amount of hatred that sent Atkins and the others up the hill...nothing changes...
Only God knows what is truely in Susan's heart. He knows if she truely asked for forgiveness. If she did ask for forgiveness from the Lord, then Praise the Lord. If she has not asked for forgiveness and she goes to her grave without forgiveness, then pity her soul.
We are no longer her judge and jury. Susan was tried and convicted and was sentenced to die. Her sentence was commuted to life in prison.
Christ died on the cross for all man-kind. He died that as long as we draw breath we have the opportunity to ask for forgiveness.
I believe that anyone who kills someone, that murderer should remain in jail or die a death equal to what the person they killed experienced before they died. However, just because they asked the Lord for forgiveness doesn't mean that they should be let out.
Christ was not guilty of His crime, however, He was crucified on the cross. And ALL of the Jews are paying for it to this day. It was not the Jews who killed Christ, Christ gave His life willingly. He was the sacrificial lamb so that we all could see the Father and be with the Father.
Look at the two who hung on crosses with Him. The on thief who cried out "SAVE YOUSELF AND US TOO IF YOU ARE THE CHRIST." He was mocking Christ, he had no remorse. The other thief said, "We are guilty of our crimes and we deserve to be here." 42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." 43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."
Christ told us that if we don't have forgiveness in our hearts to those who have done wronge to us then how can we be in Heaven with Him?
Leave Susan in prison, but find it in your hearts to forgive her, only if you want to have a part in God's Kingdom. We will all be free there and no more worry or heartache or pain or anything. But if you cannot learn to love and forgive, then even you will not have a part in Heaven, you will have eternity in the place you want for Susan.
Learn to forgive, and love your fellow man. Don't condemn anyone to a place of utter darkness and eternity without the love of God the Father.
One thing to keep in mind here, folks. She was found guilty by a jury of her peers and sentenced to death. She should have died years ago. While I'm sorry for her family, the law says she was guilty and then her sentence was changed to life in prison. The families of her victims didn't get a change in their sentences. They still didn't have their loved ones. I would never wish pain on anyone, but she's had 40 years of living, including 2 husbands, that her victims never had.
Anyone know if she's died yet?
Susan Atkins is a beautiful lady. Too bad she wasted herself on demonic influences such as LSD and Charles Manson. I truly believe she has come to see the error of her ways and how truly monstrous the murders she commited really were. However it doesn't mean that I feel she should be released. I hope she is the Christian in which she claims because apparently her time is at hand. God bless the relatives of those who were slain by Susan and the others and I hope the victims are truly at peace. On behalf of Susan all I can say is may God have mercy on your soul. Die in Peace Susan.
Alot of mother fvckers out there. To the moron of Feb 9th who insulted Tate and called her a porn start satanist - your a f-ing moron. HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? Jealous much? You sound like a waste of space. I assume your perfect, of course - perhaps some crazy person can come after you and stab you to death, see you much you enjoy it. Also to the bleeding hearts, all I can say is WWWAAHHHHHH! Society is NOT responsible for Susan and those crazies -You bleeding hearts are all the same, imagine if it had been YOUR WIFE, SISTER,BROTHER, SON, DAUGHTER etc would you still say "oh the hatred sent them up the hill" you stupid hypocrite. Yeah you can say that now, but you have the pleasure of knowing your loved ones are sleeping tightly in their bed - I do not wish it on any of you, but rather than feel sorry for Susan, how about remember what she did to the victims, adn put yourself in Sharon Tates shoes - where was her freedom or rights? Please, it is easy to blame crazy Manson for everything, the fact is these ADULTS chose to do what they did and now the little "darlings" can spend more time thinking about it in jail. Its bad enough that crazy Karla Homolka got out of jail, lets not let another lunatic out. Yes there is still hatred, but I have no problem with hating people who have committed heinous crimes..... say, have you any compassion for Osama Bin Landen too? Manson and his crew terrorized the area and killed innocent people, yet we want to forgive Manson girls but crucify Osama? what is the difference? Ah bleeding hearts, no use talking to them, its easy to "love" everyone when you never have to experience violence to someone you love
Susan Atkins, truly committed a crime that was unthinkable. So many innocent lives were brutally taken. Families have been destroyed. Yes, she did not show mercy on that night in 1969. She did commit murder and I believe that someone who is capable of doing such a horrific act, including, tasting the blood of your victim, is not a stable person to begin with. How is it conceivable that someone can convince you to do such a crime that will shock the world. Do we blame Charles Manson for all this? Perhaps, he did mastermind, but he was not present at the murder scene. Each one of us is responsible for our own actions. Could she have done this to be accepted by Manson? Possibly. Think of your own life. Can anyone talk you into doing something that you know is truly unlawful such as murder, if your a sane person. NO! Drugs played a hugh role and her mind was not the mind of a young woman who was sane at this period in her life. Should we have sympathy for her? That's up to the individual. Did she allow her victims to die peacefully? NO! Is she suffering right now, finally, for her crimes? Perhaps. My husband has said, don't feel any compassion for this woman. What she did to that young, pregnant woman, way back then, she deserves to suffer and die alone. I know, he is probably right, but I can't help but feel that because this crime was of such a high profile case, that if it had been average people, living in this house and had been murdered, Susan Atkins, probably would have seen parole years ago. I have read that she was a model inmate and made her life as good as she could in prison. Perhaps, allowing her to be with her family during her final months here on earth, is not really allowing her to be free, for she is dying. We are not giving her anything. Her days are numbered. No, disrespect to the Tate-LaBianca victims for they remain in their graves for 40 years and I know their families were never the same, for the void could never be filled. I just feel that Susan Atkins should be with her family for her final days. Again, this is just my opinion, for I have always tried to be a compassionate person. I can't say I know how the victims families feel, for I do not, because I myself have never had a family member brutally murdered, just for the heck of it. Susan is paying the ultimate price for her crimes, life behind bars and a devastating disease that will kill her. This whole compassion release would not even be a factor if the Manson killers would have been executed (use the grandfather clause)or had their sentence reduced to life without the possbility of parole. This would a resolved the whole issue.
I decided stop back in here after a somewhat lengthy hiatus to "stir the pot" a little but I see that's not needed. It's still bubbling merrily.
So, instead, a question for all of you haters. When Sue ultimately passes away, what new target will you focus your ghoulish minds upon?
you
yeah, people who hate haters! see the irony?
what happened "pot stirrer", no new insights? no first hand info to share concerning your baby-killer friend "Sue"?
"ghoulish minds"?....gee the only person who fits that description here is Susan Atkins. When anyone else here is found GUILTY of murdering several people, ONE PREGNANT YET, I'll consider your question sane. Until then you're as nuts as your friend "Sue". Get yourself some help in figuring out between what's right and wrong. Focus more on the VICTIMS. You know the ones "Sue" help put in the ground.
Yep paybacks are ALWAYS a bitch. I have no sympathy for her. I'm sure she's getting her pain meds in prison and dying a much nicer death than Sharon Tate did. My thought is that she should stay in prison and NOT get any pain meds.
I'm completely indifferent. My sympathy is with the victims and their families, especially Sharon Tate's poor little baby who never had a chance to see the light of day. As for what happens to Susan in this life, I honestly have no preference.
Yes indeed, she's a baby killer. How she can live with that alone is beyond me. To ask for release just shows she's not accepting her murderous past. I think if I were even accidently responsible for the death of a child I, like any sane person, would not expect any type forgiveness from anyone until my maker deems me worthy. I have a conscience and I know it would not let me forgive myself.
I'm still waiting to hear how you all are going to amuse yourselves once Susie is gone. Haven't thought that far ahead? Perhaps I should make some suggestions?
oh, now it's "Susie"?....gee I bet that realy threw everone off, huh pot stirrer? ha,ha,ha!!!
I guess the world will just be rid of one more killer of unborn babies. If you are really concerned I think a previous post mentioned focusing attention on you, but sadly you're far from amusing. The word annoying or idiotic comes to mind.
what new term of endearment for your girlfriend next?...maybe "Suze"??I could make a suggestion for YOU. Like go away, but your curious little mind won't let you walk away will it? because for all of your protest, you still enjoy the thrill of trying to be heard. My guess is no-one in your life pays very much attention to you. Pot-stirrers usually are avoided at all cost, right dearie? Must be time for some mydol, please treat yourself to a new box. If all else fails prozac is another option for you....just stay way from the LSD, unless you want to wind up like your friend susie, whaaaah!!!!!
Susan's crime was heinous, but nothing compared with those who support abortion. Their cowardice has slaughtered about eight times the number of people Hitler killed and 2 1/2 times the number Stalin killed, and that is only in America. The intention of abortion was eugenic from the beginning planting abortion clinics in minority neighborhoods to reduce the population of Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, Jews, and other races.
And now if I understand correctly, the head of Planned Parenthood is a black woman, and our first black president supports this genocide against his own race., I'm white, but I love blacks and people of other races too much to support any legislation or candidate who would support abortion.
haha, not going to work with me cupcake. I am impervious to provocation.
It really bugs you to hear her referred to as Sue or Susie, doesn't it? You don't want to see that because, in order to have a better focal point for your hate, you need to dehumanize her in your mind. Seeing her referred to in this way is a reminder you'd rather not have.
In order to heal yourself of this obsession you must first acknowledge that you have a problem, then form the firm desire to overcome it. It's no different than getting rid of any other addiction - drugs, alcohol, tobacco, over-eating, etc. All it takes is a little "dee-termination" :) You should open your mind and give it a try. I guarantee you'll feel better without the baggage.
No, no, no, dearie, your non-confrontational and passive aggresive.
wow, so you never feel anything but love for everyone in the world, is that right pot stirrer? no emotion of hate, ever??? no one has ever gotten you annoyed in the least, ever? Am I to believe that?
Come come now let's be real, love like hate are very real human emotions and if you have never felt hate at any one time in your life then I believe you are not capable of feeling any emotion.
Maybe I refer to her as a baby killer is because that is what she
is, plain and simple. It is something she has done. She dehumanized herself long ago. Remember from a previous post - "she thought of people as things". I don't have to explain or justify my terminolgy....babykiller. Maybe if she killed your daughter and soon to be grandson you would understand that. It's sad really that you can feel compassion for a baby killer and not the victims.
Baby killer...I calls 'em as I see 'em. case closed.
I think Susan should die in prison but I also think she would have been out long ago if her crime had not had anything to do with Charles Manson. In 1969 they were hippies and everybody hated hippies. These were sick, drugged, misfits who followed a crazy man. The judicial system used then and now and it is and was a political crime to use against hippies. I believe all the Manson family as well as the victims were all drug addicts and something went wrong. Sharon Tate may have tested negative for drugs but the rest in her house was positive. Someone posted about her life of evil films, drugs and porn. Sharon Tate was not a saint by any means.She still didn't deserve to die like she did. The boy Steven in the car is hardly mentioned. He died too but he wasn't a famous evil movie star with a bad habit. The whole thing stinks.
This case is so twisted. Susan said she killed Sharon, Tex Watson said that is a lie that he did it. Everybody goes after Susan when if you read the history that hairy ape woman Patricia Krenwinkle was brutality really came out at the Labianca'far more brutal, she was at the killings both nights, she ran down Folger to kill her. Krenwinkle killed Rosemary and then carved in Leo's belly war. Stuck a fork in the man's stomach and flipped it as it wobbled. Now who is worse? Susan's mouth is what got her in so deep. I do not wish anybody in hell. We are not the final judge. Judge not least ye be judged. Stop saying people should rot in hell, that is not your call. I am a firm believer in capital punishment, the Manson clan should have been executed but it is not my decision where they spend eternity.
Let me ask, some have posted that Susan should be made die of cancer with no pain meds. Have you ever watched a person die of cancer? Could you honestly stand a watch that kind of pain and not give even her any meds? No the victims didn't have any but then I am not a killer. Are you? If you could watch that kind of suffering and gloat you are no better than the murderers are.
"If you can watch that kind of suffering and gloat, you are no better than the murderers are."
There is a lot of truth to that.
Hello,
On May 28th 2009 Susan Denise Atkins-Whitehouse (CDC # W-08304) is scheduled for a subsequent parole consideration.
We are currently accepting email letters opposing release of this Manson Family murderer.
When composing your letter include Atkins’ CDC # (W-08304), the reasons you believe she is unsuitable for parole, your name and address (at least the City and State).
You can then email the letter to us here at tatefamilylegacy@gmail.com.
We'll make sure they are forwarded on.
If you prefer you may mail your letter to:
Board of Parole Hearings
Post Office Box 4036
Sacramento, CA 95812-4036
However, if you do mail your letter please do so asap.
If you can, please send us a copy of your mailed letter so we can make sure it isn’t lost in the mail and is counted.
Please pass this information on to anyone you think may be willing to write a letter opposing Atkins’ release.
Thank you.
TateFamilyLegacy.com
TateLegacy.com
Dear TateFamilyLegacy,
My thoughts and prayers are always with you and all the victims in the incident that took Sharon's life, including that of an unborn child.
Having said that, I believe it's time to let your wounds heal. Sharon Tate and would be tremendously happy on the Paradise seeing you forgive Susan Atkins and let go of all the consequences from the Mason's ordeals. I guarantee everyone would hold you in high esteem. Although continuing to punish Susan is totally fair, forgiving such a sick person as her would bring about the most positive effect to your family and the whole society.
With Love.
Only Jesus Christ could help Sharon's family forgive Susan Atkins for what she did--and that would be an almost impossible task for even Him to do, IMHO. There are some things you never get over; all you can do is outlive them.
Dear Readers,
A comment has been removed from this post. Opposing viewpoints are welcome and encouraged here—as long as they are on topic and expressed appropriately. Generally, this leads to interesting, lively discussion. However, all reader comments that contain vulgarity, malicious personal attacks, or deliberately misleading information will be deleted. Please be advised that a WCI administrator will remove any destructive comments to this post without further notice. Thanks for your cooperation.
Women in Crime Ink
As a Christian, I forgive Susan, but the Manson killers deserve to be where they are. God will judge them when they pass, not you and me.
Please release Susan Atkins to save the State of California which is on the verge of bankrupcy. To those who are against releasing S.A., are you ok seeing hundreds, if not thousands of teachers being laid off due to budget crisis? What do you keep Susan Atkins in jail for? Are you ok seeing hundreds and thousands of public services being cut, and million of Californians being affected because California is out of money? Why do you still want to keep paying for Susan Atkins' medical bills. Where are your minds? Please stop talking non-sense, and be realistic.
Good luck!
As far as the cost associated with keeping Susan Atkins a prisoner for the remainder of her life(which according to her doctors should have been over approximately six months ago) it pales in comparison to the cost associated with keeping thousands of non violent offenders imprisoned.
Rather than release a mass murderer such as Susan Atkins why not release the non violent offenders.
Susan Atkins' health care is a drop in the bucket compared to the expense of housing and caring for these thousands of inmates that have committed non violent crimes.
Also, if this were Charles Manson, David Berkowitz, Jeffrey Dahmer , Richard RamÃrez, or any other male mass murderer/serial killer that was terminally ill no one (but perhaps a few on the fringe of society) would be calling for their parole based on their health.
There are crimes, we believe, that are so bad, that are such an assault on society, that the perpetrator should never be released for any reason, even terminal illness.
On May 28th 2009 Susan Denise Atkins-Whitehouse (CDC # W-08304) is scheduled for a subsequent parole consideration.
We are currently accepting email letters opposing release of this Manson Family murderer.
When composing your letter include Atkins’ CDC # (W-08304), the reasons you believe she is unsuitable for parole, your name and address (at least the City and State).
You can then email the letter to us here at tatefamilylegacy@gmail.com.
We'll make sure they are forwarded on.
If you prefer you may mail your letter to:
Board of Parole Hearings
Post Office Box 4036
Sacramento, CA 95812-4036
However, if you do mail your letter please do so asap.
If you can, please send us a copy of your mailed letter so we can make sure it isn’t lost in the mail and is counted.
Please pass this information on to anyone you think may be willing to write a letter opposing Atkins’ release.
Thank you.
TateFamilyLegacy.com
TateLegacy.com
Tate Legacy,
Tomorrow will be Susan Atkins' Parole hearing, which is probably her last. I have only a couple of thoughts:
1) If you think we should keep Susan Atkins in jail because she is of any danger to the society, then please think again: She is not!
2) If you think that because she had no compassion for the victims, she should pay the price now, then where is our compassion and mercy?
3) To release the inmates that qualify for parole is to show mercy to the criminals as soon as they deserve it, and to save money for the society, and more importantly to show that we are more humane than the criminals.
By all means, my hearts and prayers are with all of you, especially the victims' families like the Tates. May God heal your wounds. The world would admire you if you let Ms. Atkins go home tomorrow. I mean you don't have to, but please do so for the goodness sake.
Susan Atkins' parole hearing has been postponed and will NOT take place tomorrow. At this point there is no new date for her parole hearing.
Ya know, at this late date I hope the state does take the cowardly approach and force Susan to spend what's left of her life in prison. Why? Because I don't what them to be able to daub themselves with the compassionate brush in what amounts to a meaningless gesture.
And what's the big deal with "The Terminator" getting himself involved? What do we really have here? An unknown Austrian whose claims to fame are (1) filling himself with steroids, (2) talking funny, and (3) marrying into the right family. "Arnie" needs to remember his humble beginnings and thank his lucky stars he was allowed to move here. Try to do a better job of running California, Arno.
(stir stir stir)
Awww....somebody got censored?
I wonder if those comments were directed at me?? Too bad, I would have been delighted to read them.
"Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.
Thrice and once, the hedge-pig whin'd.
Harpier cries:—'tis time! 'tis time!
Round about the caldron go;"
(that's from Macbeth, in case you were wondering. here's another...)
"it is a tale told by an idiot,
full of sound and fury,
signifying nothing."
"it is a tale told by an idiot,
full of sound and fury,
signifying nothing."
still talking about (and full of) yourself I see....
No, that wasn't me talking, that was William Shakespeare talking. I thought "Macbeth" would be enough of a clue.
Since your lack of originality is only exceeded by your lack of originality, I'll speak in your language.
1- "No, I was actually referring to you!"
2- "Before I met you, I was pro-life"
3- "Your village called... their idiot is missing."
4- "I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public."
5- "Stop making a bigger fool out of yourself than nature already has!"
6- "In this fantasy world of yours, do you have magical powers?"
7- "So's your mother!"
8- "Who died and left you boss?"
9- “I don’t know the name of your problem, but I’ll bet it’s difficult to pronounce.”
10- "Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
:)
*yaaaaawwwwwn*...boy that was...um, boring at best and totally off topic.
"No, that wasn't me talking, that was William Shakespeare talking. I thought "Macbeth" would be enough of a clue."...
I think the person realized that. He or she was being facetious....you twit.
If I were Susan Atkins, I would skip the Parole hearing, and volunteer to stay in jail for the rest of my life. What's the difference of dying at home or in jail. Actually it would be much cheaper and safer for me to die in jail.
But, if I were the Tate Family, I would beg the Board of Parole Hearings to release Susan Atkins asap. That would buy me a very good reputation cuz people would call me Mr. Mercifull and praise me for generations to come.
I don't know why some people are still thinking the opposite.
Yes, well fortunately for you, you are NOT the Tate family nor am I or anyone else here who posts to say what they should do or how they should feel.
You and I did not suffer the loss that they and the other victims families did 40 years ago. Whatever they feel, whatever they desire is what all of us should now respect.
I doubt that "buying" a good reputation and being "praised?" for generations to come is high on anyone's list after what they have endured. If keeping Susan Atkins in jail will deter just one more lunatic out there from repeating the same horrible crimes I concur with the Tate Family.... *thumbs down* for her release.
By the same token, if I were a lunatic out there, I would argue that it is the unlimitedly free health coverage that the state of CA is awarding Susan Atkins for her horrific crime that encourages more lunatics out there to become criminals. Hey, who doesn't like free stuffs? My BlueShield deductibles alone cost me $5,000+ a year. How unfair!
Now, if I were the Tate family, I would be completely gratified by the fact that Susan Atkins and her family would be the ones who pay all the costs. That really deters future crimes.
And finally if I were Governor Arnie, I would create a new law to reform the jail system in CA. That is to make all inmates liable for all the costs incurred by their crimes(incarceration cost, medical cost, etc.) If they could not pay by themselves, then make their parents, their siblings or their kids pay for it. That would make a criminal think twice before committing a crime.
Hooray! That's the true deterrence.
So what you're saying is that any lunatic (the clear thinking ones, if they even exist) would gladly commit horrfic crimes to receive free health care? They would gladly give up their freedom to live behind bars for the rest of their lives for those benefits?
I agree that the inmates/families pay for their health care, but I doubt that free health care encourages a criminal lifestyle!
CNN just announced that Atkins' next Parole Hearing will be on September 2. So let's all pray that she is released this time.
September 2..I didn't think that her doctors gave her that long to live? Maybe it is time for all Christians to pray for a compassionate death for Ms. Atkins while she is still in prison. She has another judge to face after that.
We can still accept letters opposing parole for Susan Atkins.
On September 2nd 2009 Susan Denise Atkins-Whitehouse (CDC # W-08304) is scheduled for a subsequent parole consideration.
We are currently accepting email letters opposing release of this Manson Family murderer.
When composing your letter include Atkins’ CDC # (W-08304), the reasons you believe she is unsuitable for parole, your name and address (at least the City and State).
You can then email the letter to us here at tatefamilylegacy@gmail.com.
We'll make sure they are forwarded on.
If you prefer you may mail your letter to:
Board of Parole Hearings
Post Office Box 4036
Sacramento, CA 95812-4036
However, if you do mail your letter please do so asap.
If you can, please send us a copy of your mailed letter so we can make sure it isn’t lost in the mail and is counted.
Please pass this information on to anyone you think may be willing to write a letter opposing Atkins’ release.
Thank you.
TateFamilyLegacy.com
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